[ May 6, 2024 ]
It would indeed seem fundamental especially 18 years after 9/11 and countless lives lost, but this is a first, most especially from someone in a position of influence and respect. No one would dare say such a thing because of the violence in the Quran and fear of retribution. There is an urgent need to teach young Muslims why the violence inherent in Islam is wrong and must be rejected. And while Muslims will condemn the generic terrorism in the wake of jihad slaughter, where are they teaching against the ideology and Islamic texts that gave command it?
Right now, nothing is being done to stop jihad recruiting in mosques. If the moderates really reject extremism, let them show it by instituting genuine programs to teach against this view of Islam.
Of course, Muslim leaders reacted predictably to the Judge’s sage and brave call for reformation. Same old, same old nonsense of “cherrypicking” and “religion of peace.” But Justice Desmond Fagan said the lethal messages derived from “hostile passages” of the Koran were not effectively countered by suggestions from “various quarters” that the verses had been “cherry picked” or that Islam was an “interpretive religion.”
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Judge calls on Muslims to publicly disavow violence in Koran
By Angus Thompson & Margaret Scheikowski, SMH, 31 January 2019:
A NSW Supreme Court judge has called on Muslims to publicly disavow violent verses of the Koran that he says have been used by Islamic extremists to support terrorism in Australia.
It’s time to speak out: Justice Desmond Fagan.Justice Desmond Fagan said the lethal messages derived from “hostile passages” of the Koran were not effectively countered by suggestions from “various quarters” that the verses had been “cherry picked” or that Islam was an “interpretive religion”.
“The incitements to violence which terrorists quote from the Koran cannot just be ignored by the many believers who desire harmonious coexistence. Those verses are not ignored by terrorists,” Justice Fagan said.
He said there were sometimes assurances offered to Western communities that “Islam is a religion of peace”.
“But in the absence of express public disavowal of verses which convey Allah’s command for violence, as quoted in the jihadist literature tendered in this case, such assurances are apparently contradicted,” he said.
“Certainly that is how the matter is seen by jihadi propagandists and those who have followed them.”
Justice Fagan made the remarks on Thursday during his sentencing of Sameh Bayda and Alo-Bridget Namoa, a young couple, both 21, found guilty in October last year of conspiring to do an act in preparation for a terrorist act between December 8, 2015 and January 25, 2016.
Justice Fagan, who has presided over many terrorism-related cases, said the Islamic religion’s broad acceptance of the Koran without denouncing verses supporting “intolerance, violence and domination” would “embolden terrorists to think they are in common cause with all believers and indeed that they are the spearhead of the religion.”
“We continue to be extremely vocal in countering that. As much as we can find an opportunity to put the correct context to these situations, we do,” Mr Trad said. “The underlying premise of Islam is peace and peaceful encouragement for people to do what is right.”
Justice Fagan said terrorists’ perceived scriptural support for their actions couldn’t be effectively rebutted by police or the courts.
“If the verses upon which the terrorists rely are not binding commands of Allah, it is Muslims who would have to say so,” he said.
“If Australian followers of the religion, including those who profess deep knowledge, were to make a clear public disavowal of these verses, as not authoritative instructions from Allah, then the terrorists’ moral conviction might be weakened.”
The phones of the convicted couple contained a vast amount of extremist material, including graphic images and videos of beheadings and soldiers carrying Islamic flags.
In one text message Namoa said she wanted to perform a jihadist attack with Bayda, or support him in such an attack, likening the pair to an “Islamic Bonnie and Clyde”.
Mr Trad said he would be “very surprised” if the people the judge was talking about had read the Koran in its entirety.
“I’d be very surprised if they read any more than snippets. The concern is when they act on snippets without knowing the context,” he said. “Unfortunately what we have in Australia from time to time, we get people who are ignorant of the religion, they hear a word here or there and want justification for their own behaviour.
“It’s not an indictment on that religion, its an indictment on that person.”
Sydney Islamic community leader Dr Jamal Rifi said what the judgment conveyed was already what most Australian Muslims believed, and that Bayda and Namoa had been taught by “Sheikh Google”.
“We are grateful to the judge for his interpretation because that’s what the majority of Australian Muslims interpret and practice,” Dr Rifi said.
Justice Fagan jailed Bayda for four years, with a non-parole period of three years, which expired on January 25.
Namoa was jailed for three years and nine months, with a non-parole period of two years and 10 months, which expired on January 22. Both are now eligible to apply for parole.
The Crown alleged the couple’s plan was for a New Year’s Eve attack carried out by Bayda.
The judge accepted Bayda’s evidence that he was inspired by jihadist propaganda to commit a violent street robbery, with two friends, of two non-Muslims walking down the street that night, but he backed out of the plan.
“It follows that I also accept Bayda did not intend to carry out on New Year’s Eve an attack of a kind likely to lead to his death. I find it plausible in all the circumstances that he exaggerated to Namoa the nature of what he was planning,” Justice Fagan said.
He said that though the pair were 18 at the time of the offending, “it should have been apparent to both of them that citing verses of the Koran and recounting deeds of the prophet from 1400 years ago” couldn’t reconcile violence with legitimate religion.
“In the belief of the propagandists, shared by Bayda and Namoa at the time of their offence, violence toward non-Muslims is not merely an incidental tactic for attracting attention to the faith or to issues which concern its followers,” Justice Fagan said.
“Relying upon the parts of the Koran which they cite and upon the example set by the prophet, the ideology espoused in the online jihadi literature embraces never-ending war against non-believers as an inherent and central element of belief.”
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75 Comments
5 years ago
Here comes a fatwa.
5 years ago
while Left/liberal pro-jihadi run EU is turning into islamic hellhole with more jihadi attacks Trump is shutting down jihadi funding that has been running for decades now https://tinyurl.com/ya4gdwt3
Left/Liberal Loons say that makes him “racist” , “islamophobe” . Guess what ? Trump gives a damn .
LOL !
5 years ago
Whoa there, Fagan- you some kinda islamophobe?
This holy Koran cannot be changed so much as one diacritical mark (despite the fact that the Koran in use today was only standardized a little over a hundred years ago, and the earliest manuscripts had no diacritics). Particularly at the behest of a kuffar.
In fact, this is blasphemy.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Maybe he’s only addressing your “decent”, “honest”, “CAIRing” muslums (cough, choke, gag)?
5 years ago
Reply to
MuhamMUDTheFakeProphet
Maybe he’s only addressing your “decent”, “honest”, [Moslems]
Of which there are many, goon.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Yeah right muslum apologist worm — just like there were “decent”, “honest”, “good” nazis.
I’ll bet you can hardly wait for the day you can report members of the goon squad to the thought police for crimes against islum.
BTW worm, islum being a fascist ideology, what does that make f’ing muslums?
5 years ago
Reply to
MuhamMUDTheFakeProphet
Yeah right muslum apologist worm — just like there were “decent”, “honest”, “good” nazis.
Situations are entirely different. A person can be born into Islam. Choosing to be a member of the Nazi Party was a “privilege” accorded to only a few.
You are clueless about drawing meaningful and appropriate analogies. That’s just for starters with your moronic bile, goon.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
All reasonable questions, yiyoya,
I don’t know that nominal Muslims have proven themselves over the course of 1,400 bloody years to be of no consequence and no importance. However, neither did they carry the day in the great conflicts you mentioned. How much those conflicts were about Islam, and how much involved other factors, such as economic or geopolitical factors, might make in interesting Ph.D. dissertation, or book.
Allow me to zero in on our Nazi Germany reference. No, Hitler prevailed over all domestic opposition- but just barely. There were multiple assassination attempts against him but, he seemed to live a charmed life for a time. Had the Nazi’s minimal opposition succeeded, the history of the 20th century would have been very different.
An important question that I don’t have an answer to is, “Is an Islamic reformation possible?” (in anything less than geological time). But in truth, nobody knows what the world of Islam will look like in 200 years. One thing that I am confident of is that the hatred that the various “good squad” members here show toward Moslems as people is wholly inimical to any peaceful relationship with Moslems or the Islamic world. I sometimes speculate on the reaction of a Moslem of good will coming to this site and encountering the vulgar, utterly stupid hatred spewed forth by the likes of ‘handjob and ‘MUD’- well I am confident they would run away thinking those infidels were every bit as bad as the imam said! As a counter example, I recall Nonie Darwish saying in her book Now They Call Me Infidel how impressed she was by the Catholic (and least Christian) teachers in the school she attended that, in contrast to the imams of Egypt, they never spoke ill of anyone.
You raise good questions, and I can only point to some possible answers. I appreciate you asking, and asking cordially. Finally, I would note that one should never close the door on a path to peace, even though the possibility may look very bleak at the moment. That, however, is what the “good squad” here does.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
“…nobody knows what the world of Islam will look like in 200 years.” LOL, yeah worm but the last 1400 years might be a big clue.
Muslums, muslum apologists, muslum sympathizers and muslum collaborators don’t deserve respect.
5 years ago
Reply to
MuhamMUDTheFakeProphet
The Islamic world has undergone substantial change throughout its history, moron.
Gad, you goons are a nasty bunch.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Substantial change? They’ve spread like a f’ing disease allah over the world and turned every geographic area they control into a theocratic, totalitarian, fascist cesspool ya f’ing supercilious, dishonest shrub.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
How so? Western military technology pushed the last caliphate back into turkey NOT any inherent change in islam. I am sorry LS but you are talking absolute rubbish here. Go and live in Cairo as a Copt and find a clue.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Please define “change”. Or do you mean change in an insipid “hope and change” sense?
5 years ago
Reply to
MuhamMUDTheFakeProphet
Marcus Aurelius was a dictator, if he’s your moral exemplar you’re warped.
Islum is a fascist ideology chump, that makes f’ing muslums fascists. And what proof do I have for this chump? The ENTIRE f’ing muslum world in the 21st century as every, last, f’ing muslum state is a fascist, totalitarian, theocratic, religious apartheid state and ALL of them belong to the fascist totalitarian organisation called the OIC.
Why don’t you and Flaccid Flower get a room?
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
IIRC the Koran was locked in as “word of god” and hence unalterable in the 13th or 14 century. Certainly not all muslims are scum but the constant failure of those who are not, to do anything to control/remove those who are is an indictment of ALL of them. I am yet to meet a non anti-Semitic, non misogynistic, non homophobic muslim male who is honest, a non welfare cheat with one wife and two children who is capable of rational debate on religion/ideology and is prepared to accept the sins of past and present islam. Your naïve support of the utterly useless “moderate” muslim is typical of those who have placed the west in its current downward spiral towards sharia. In WW2 we did not bother to separate the Nazis from the rest and I so hope that we do the same here. I have worked in their countries and you have no real idea of just what they can and will do to others.
5 years ago
Reply to
Michelle
Michelle, the words of the Koran may be “unalterable” (even though the Koran used today was only standardized in the 20th century). But the meaning of those words is definitely not unalterable. Let’s see now … was it 72 virgins, or was it 72 grapes (Ibn Warraq discussed that one in his collection of essays Virgins? What Virgins?. See also his Which Koran?. No faith, including Islam, is immutable.
And after WWII, we very much distinguished between Nazis and non-Nazis. Only the former were tried for war crimes, while only the latter were permitted to be in government.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Agreed re first paragraph. But WRT the second I was talking about war as that is what is occurring now and, despite the total refusal of the west to acknowledge this, it is not an undeclared war as all that you must do to know this is listen to or read mosque/muslim leader speeches all over the world.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Really ahole? Why can’t the muslum parasites squatting in kafir countries renounce their damned, dumb, fascist, Jew hating death cult?
Your excuses for f’ing muslums are like a$$holes — everyone has one.
5 years ago
Reply to
Liatris Spicata
Poor little litty spittoon. Why doesn’t everyone love you? You try SO hard. People should like you! Why does everyone pick on you? Now, be a good little girl … and go off and finally read “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” …. With a good tutor, that shouldn’t take you more than a decade. You poor, poor little thing. I truly pity you.
5 years ago
Islam?…..
Is a misunderstood, peaceful, non-violent religion of peace….
NO…
Never was, is not now and never will be.
5 years ago
This could get interesting but I won’t get interesting but I won’t get too excited over it.
They need a SME to drive home just how violent the verses are along with the Hadith for the explanation of the violence. An ex Muslim or someone like Robert Spencer who was has really studied it would be helpful to nail these inbred savages.
BTW speaking of Robert Spencer, his site has been labeled https://www.jihadwatch.org/
Can’t he sue for slander or something? This is way out of line.
I would expect this website to get labeled like that next.
5 years ago
Reply to
felix1999
Microsoft using spurious Leftist “fact-checking” site to place warning label on Jihad Watch
JAN 23, 2019 3:43 PM BY ROBERT SPENCER
Microsoft has now placed a warning label on Jihad Watch for those who use its Edge browser:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/01/microsoft-using-spurious-leftist-fact-checking-site-to-place-warning-label-on-jihad-watch
Since when does the LEFT have the authority to prescreen news and label it?
Maybe Trump needs to get the FCC involved since Congress won’t do anything….
This false labeling is unAmerican as well as unConstitutional.
5 years ago
The judge’s focus is on Australia only & focuses on terrorism, Jihad.
But he leaves out the Sharia-tyranny.
For example in Saudi Arabia Africans are enslaved, atheists tortured & girls forcibly declitorized & raped.
Muhammadists only condemn Muhammadist crimes when the crimes slip into the news & can’t be hidden anymore.
What Muhammadist condemned unjust Muhammad’s crimes & commands or Hitler’s crimes who was a Muhammadist?
Today Africans are enslaved, castrated, divorced, beaten & killed in Saudi Arabia & enslaved in the UAE, Oman, Yemen, Kuwait, Lebanon, Bahrain, Iraq, Libya (surge), Algeria (surge), Mauritania (20 percent), Niger, Mali, Somalia, Nigeria in emulation of unjust Muhammad who started the global African slave-trade by saying his unproven deity had turned Africans black so Africans’ descendants would be slaves to Arabs & Turks (see Wikiislam).
We need to abolish Muhammadist tyrannies & incitement to the unjust Muhammad-law, war & tyranny.
5 years ago
An extremely naive man? Or an ignorant idiot? Does he really think the muslum world is going to renounce their holey quranus in whole ore in part just because some milk toast kafir “leader” desires it? The rotten, corrupt, degenerate atheist West is done.
5 years ago
Reply to
MuhamMUDTheFakeProphet
You give them the chance to reciprocate before you act yourself. In the west that has to be done but I doubt that any real action will be taken. Place me in charge and the country will be free of them within a year.
5 years ago
We all should hail this commentary by Justice Fagan. It
speaks to reality, though I sincerely believe that the likelihood of their
being an effective rejection of the words within this belief system that result
in the fallacious and wrongful claims that justify the violence emanating from
the Muslim world is about zero. If, after over 1400 years, these believers
still justify their conduct on the verses of the Quran, nothing will change
them now. To believe that there is even a possibility of that happening is
unmeritorious. Every day, the Iman’s and the Mullah’s, who are the religious
leaders of this horrible belief system, are heard promoting domination and subjugation of non-believers, and none of the
leaders that can call them out as being insane and spouting nonsense fail to do
so. To expect any rejection of the violence that is built into this belief
system is without merit. The free world must know that keeping these believers
out is the only answer to the scourge that they represent.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dennis
It is NOT possible. The Koran was defined as the “word of god” in the 13th or 14th century and as such is unalterable. His ignorance is typical of those in western law. islam is NOT a religion but a supremacist ideology that uses religion as a control mechanism and defensive façade. It will never be altred, it can only be crushed,. why? look at 1300 years of history.
5 years ago
Reply to
Michelle
supremacist ideology ???
are saying that god/Allah/truth is supremacist ????
as far as i know .. truth is supremacist over falsehood
5 years ago
Name a MUSLIM country taking in fellow Muslim savages!
NONE!
The stupid west is.
5 years ago
Goodby Justice Desmond Fagan.
5 years ago
Those verses are not ignored by terrorists,” Justice Fagan said. But they are ignored by the MS media. This issue should have been in the news a long time ago, but we haven’t seen anything. Censorship is complete. 
German TV news presenter Brent Goff (DW)
5 years ago
like these 7th century third-world illiterates are going to listen???
Australia is one of the easiest countries to protect agains raft people – yet they still invade and demand demand demand.
The power is in their hands to clear the infestation by sending them back to their medieval $h!Tholes.
I so wish western civilization would stop catering and listening to this vermin.
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
They, and the rest of the west, would be much better off without your fellow goat and donkey humpers….
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
As long as they keep out indosneezian moslem girly-boy homosexuals, such as you and your family …. and not allow ONE single malay …. it shouldn’t be too much of a problem to round up the pallyswine, packyswine, soomawwlees, and ayrahbs and put them all to the sword. “!!!!”
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
And tell your fellow Aussies to stop bashing Israel and the Jews.
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
The only Land thieves in the Middle East are the Moslems when they left Saudi Arabia. They belong in Saudi and nowhere else. They are a cancer on mankind.
5 years ago
Reply to
Thurston Howell III
Australia is no more a safe country with heaps of violence by Muslims, mostly active in Melbourne and many other areas. Lots is still hushed while we still bring in many
5 years ago
and then they get light sentences, good golly
5 years ago
they need to embrace judeoPORNistian values … nuff said ..
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
You trying to drum up business for your son and mother? Homosexual pornography is a product of moslems!
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
are you okay, you indosneezian moslem girly-boy homosexual “???” They have new medications to slow down the development speed of your AIDS. Share that information with your son and mother … You ALL need urgent help …
5 years ago
MOSLEMS should not even be in Australia. Attempting to modify them, to get them to conform to one’s legal system, is a foolhardy gesture that will fail utterly. Mass repatriation of all of Australia’s moslems, appeasers and collaborators, is the best solution here, and the only solution that has a chance of winning against the moslem enemy.
5 years ago
Reply to
Jay Dillon
The left on Australia has a big foot hold and many came in under Labor and has the same problems as USA
5 years ago
Reply to
Jay Dillon
We ask them to….
assimilate.
They demand we……
!!!!! ACCOMMODATE !!!! ACCOMMODATE!!!!!!
5 years ago
no doubt … Desmond Fagan is the strongest candidate for next Australian Grand Mufti ..!!
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
I had no idea that Fagan was a homosexual. He couldn’t become a moslem, if he wasn’t. That’s a requirement for ALL male moslems, as ALL male moslems are homosexuals.
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
Are you okay “???”
Did your son give you AIDS, or did he just give it to your mother?
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
Well, did your son, the homosexual pornography movie actor, give you AIDS or not? Or, did he just give it to your mother?
5 years ago
Reply to
Achmed Mohandjob
Now, perhaps in these cases, it skips a generation? If so, semenjerkoff just got the slow-rotting brain mental disorder.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
Could very well be. I hypothesize that semen has full blown AIDS.
5 years ago
Reply to
SemurJengkolMaknyus
Wow. You know what 911 is? How modern of you. Now, if we could just get you people to use toilet paper…….
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
i really admire your culture of ‘cleanliness’ … though i am still wondering why the poo-eater meat is your staple food (don’t google ‘pig toilet’) … not to mentioned the feces h*les lifestyles (ie: anus marriages .. anus porn hedo culture .. etc) ..
5 years ago
Sadly it is un-common sense.
5 years ago
That’s 71 violent suras (out of 114). Now 43 suras are without abrogated verses. What does that mean Baba?? It simply means that those who would be inclined to accept their quran as reliable can take only 43 suras of their quran as face value. The majority of its suras cannot be taken at face value.
5 years ago
At least there is some hope for Australia when judges stand their ground. Need more of them but to give harsh penalties.
5 years ago
Its at least a start – and thats alot more than whats happening in this country – but the koran sanctions lying to further itself –
5 years ago
This justice is wrong they the muslims. Will not disavow or change any thi g if they did they would make themselves targets for other Muslim,. Only in force will the Muslim ever back up
5 years ago
Australia needs to follow the example of Japan and simply ban Muslims and their cult masquerading as a religion from their country. However, the judge has made a good point and should be commended for his courage. The solution is banning and deportation.
5 years ago
My brother is a atheist leftist and at christmas dinner he started talking about how peaceful Islam is . so I quoted Qur’an 8:40. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them, cut off their fingertips and smite their necks.
My brother said that was written before a battle and is taken out of context. .
I asked how out of context is cutting off someones head because they don’t follow your religion?
5 years ago
Yup, That’s gonna happen. Pigs may fly.
5 years ago
The only remedy is to disavow the entire Koran, the entire rag is filled end to end with evil, hatred, intolerance, homophobia, female servitude, anti-Semitism, and pedophilia.
5 years ago
While I commend him for his effort, it will never happen. They enjoy it too much. The majority of Muslims are from 3rd world countries and never had any money or power at all. Now they live in free housing, eat free food, probably get some kind of stipend, and can rape, torture, and kill anyone or anything without being held accountable. The countries they have invaded are protecting them no matter what they do and punishing the actual citizens of those nations for complaining about it.This makes them believe it is the will of their fake god and fake profit so they feel very powerful for perhaps the first time in their lives. They will never give that up. All Muslims must be deported back to Muslim countries. Waiting until your granddaughter comes to visit and you find out that the other grandmother has had her sexually mutilated it will be too late.
5 years ago
Maybe, just maybe, there IS hope for sense from the judiciary – long way to go, however.
5 years ago
I do not care if they publicly disavow anything, it’s all taqiya. Liars and savages will say anything to continue their reign of terror and CONQUEST!!!
5 years ago
Most Muslims believe the Quran CANNOT be changed or reformed, period. End of discussion.
