Good for you! You have managed to succeed where so many others have failed. You have given a single example. Do you believe that this single example supports your assertion that “honor” murders are a non-Muslim “cultural thing”? I do not. There are literally thousands of examples of Muslims doing this. Non-Muslims, not so much. I stand by my assertion. “Honor” murders are a Muslim “thing”.

You’re quite correct. As an uneducated rube I’m quite ignorant of things like facts and google searches. Perhaps you can school me on the error of my ways. If there are so many examples of non-Muslim “honor” murders it should be a simple matter for you to provide me with a list of these numerous examples.

And a little backstory on me. I have a degree from the University of Michigan in Middle Eastern and North African Studies. And I take offense to the rube remark. I was happily married to one for 17 years. Some of the best people I know are quite uneducated.

That’s because the number of non-Muslims living in the region has dwindled significantly in past years due to war, emigration, persecution and killings. It is also practiced by Hindus in other regions. That makes the number of reported cases much smaller in regards to the actual practice in the region. And a little backstory on me. I have a degree from the University of Michigan in Middle Eastern and North African Studies. And I take offense to the rube remark. Some of the best people I know are quite uneducated.

Uninterested in facts. I simply stated uneducated opinion is not wise.

Ignoring facts is not wise. I think this is a universal truth.

Wellll, facts regarding honor killings committed by non-Muslims are the foundation of any assertion made by someone claiming they exist and thus relevant to a thread challenging such an assertion. I think you are a know-it-all that doesn’t know how to objectively consider possibilities beyond your own narrow viewpoint even when they are served on a platter, so to speak.

You do realize that using the word exclusive precludes the existence of this practice by other religions, right? You asked for one example and I gave you four. The thing about stopping honor killings is that you have to understand the practice in its entirety. To say it is evil will not stop it because it has been deemed a religiously valid response by the offender. You obviously are mistaking Muslim culture for something that can be factually supported as originating in Arab culture.

Yes, Muslim honor killings are exclusive to Muslims. Just as Christian honor killings are exclusive to Christians and Hindu honor killings are exclusive to Hindus with respect to individuals within each religion who endorse or act on such beliefs. And if you refer to my comment on assimilation, you will see that the ratio of muslims practicing honor killings related to relative population in regions outside of traditionally Arab lands supports my assertion that the practice is less common outside of the region.

I claimed assimilation reduces the practice but failed to provide statistics because they are not reliable. Some state the practice is possibly more widespread than reported because the burden of proof requires evidence of a religious motive. I would still assert that it is statistically less common in those assimilated in civilized society but can not prove it without reliable data. The only data available would support me but it is probably too low of a figure. So I am sorry but I can’t back that up with statistics currently available. And the reason it is common in those regions is due to migration.

And Pakistan was due to jihad.

Lol

I was not being sarcastic. I found it strange that you are trying to attribute the high occurrence of honor murders in Pakistan to jihad. That seems to contradict your previous assertions that honor murders aren’t unique to Muslim cultures. Jihad is unique to Muslim cultures.

Fair enough. At least you acknowledge that the practice has spread along with Islam.

And as far as numbers, I still say it is less common outside of the Middle East and similar region (Pakistan, Afghanistan) than within the region after sharia law. The problem is finding reliable data to use in comparison. All data in the region is skewed and any outside the region is incomplete. It just can’t be definitively proven either way at this point.

What is the NA ME culture?

I’ve finally had the chance to examine the examples you have provided in detail. I’m not sure if you’re aware that two of the links you have provided are duplicates. That being said, along with the first example you provided, you have produced a whopping three examples of non-Muslims committing honor murders, which is three more than anyone else to whom I have issued that challenge to have been able to provide. Kudos to you, you have successfully demonstrated that the practice of honor murders is not limited exclusively to Muslims. However, your paltry three examples, in comparison to the numerous examples of Muslims committing honor murders, demonstrates that the practice is committed predominantly by Muslims, by a considerably large margin. Whenever I see the topic being discussed, usually in the context of yet another honor murder by a Muslim being reported, the figure usually mentioned is 91% (as I mentioned in my initial comment). The 91% figure is based upon a dubious survey and simply does not stand up to any scrutiny of the matter. Accurate statistics on this phenomenon are difficult to come by but just based upon a cursory examination of what is available the number is much more likely to be closer to 99.9 %. It would be interesting to see someone do some accurate research on the topic and produce a more realistic estimate of how often honor murders occur and just exactly who is committing them. I think the results of such a study would be both enlightening and disturbing, and the ratio of Muslim to non-Muslim honor murders is much more lopsided towards Muslims than many would be comfortable admitting.

I agree, 91% is a significant number. If one takes this number at face value, it means that 91 out of 100 honor murders are committed by Muslims. If this does not indicate that honor murders are a problem endemic to Muslim cultures I’m not really sure what would. I’m no mathematician, but I am quite capable of calculating percentages. I think that we can both agree that the accuracy of any such number based upon nothing more than a survey, as the 91% number is based, is suspect. Perhaps I do lack understanding of the region in regards to history and current cultural practices. I do not understand any culture that condones murder under any circumstances and I certainly don’t understand a culture that condones the murder of one’s family members for such trivial reasons as “honor”.

I can’t argue with that.