[ April 19, 2024 ]
CNN’s Chris Cuomo released an audio recording of a conversation that took place in September 2016 between then-presidential candidate Donald Trump and his personal attorney, Michael Cohen. The men were discussing buying the rights to a story by then-Playboy model Karen McDougall, who allegedly had an affair with Trump in 2006. Trump had no knowledge he’d been recorded.
American Media, Inc., publisher of the National Enquirer, paid $150,000 for the rights to McDougall’s story and sat on it. This move is known in tabloid journalism as a “catch and kill.” The tabloid’s chairman, David Pecker, is a friend of Trump’s.
Although discussions between a lawyer and a client are protected by attorney-privilege laws, Trump waived this right. He and his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, believe that the release of the tapes will help his case.
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The entire recorded conversation can be heard at 0:45 in the video below. The relevant portion begins at 5:10 and the specific words in dispute can be heard at 5:48.
The two sides are arguing over whether Trump says “I don’t want to pay cash” or “I want to pay cash.”
(After listening to this clip over and over again, I cannot determine if Trump did or did not say “don’t” before “pay cash.” The recording is so garbled at that point that it’s difficult to say for sure. Listen to the recording and see what you think. A forensic analyst should be able to give a definitive answer.)
Michael Cohen replies, “No (pause) no, no, no, no. I got it. No, no, no.”
Trump asks “check?”
The tape then cuts off, but it’s clear he has said the word “check” in a questioning tone.
The more important question is why does it end abruptly just as Trump is saying, “check?” Why not offer listeners something more that might provide context to the dialog?
Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani, and Cohen’s attorney Lanny Davis both offered their takes on the recording Tuesday night.
Rudy Giuliani was questioned by Laura Ingraham. His comments can be heard on the video below. Giuliani insists that Trump said “don’t pay cash.” He claims that Trump is helped by the release of this recording. He questions why the tape cuts off so abruptly and speculates that there may have something exculpatory for Trump or else damning for Cohen, that Cohen and his attorney wanted to conceal. That makes sense. If the opposite were true, they surely would have included it.
Lanny Davis spoke to CNN’s Chris Cuomo. (Can be viewed at 7:40 on the first of the three videos in post.) Let me preface this by saying that I’ve never been a Lanny Davis fan. Not at all. So, in the same cringe-worthy, self-righteous way in which Davis defended the defenseless Hillary Clinton throughout her presidential campaign, he explains how damaging this recording is to Trump.
Because everybody heard Donald Trump just now say the word cash…[Davis repeats the word] cash…after Mr. Cohen mentioned financing. [When] Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Trump, through Mr. Giuliani, accused my client, Mr. Cohen, of saying the word cash. And I posted a tweet at the time, and I said wait for the tapes. Richard Nixon couldn’t spin the tape that did him in and there’s no way Mr. Giuliani, who knows from being US attorney, that the only people who use cash are drug dealers and mobsters. Cash is not what you do. And it was Michael Cohen who said, no, no, no, no, and Donald Trump, despite what Rudy Giuliani said publicly, the tape contradicts Mr. Giuliani and the word “cash” was heard by everyone.
When Chris Cuomo puts up a visual of Giuliani’s take on the tape, Davis grins and then laughs. Then he draws his comparisons to Nixon and mobsters a second time and laughs.
Davis makes the point that Trump was not hearing about Karen McDougall for the first time and he is correct. Trump does not require an explanation from Cohen.
This brings us to the analysis of Harvard Law Professor and Fox News contributor Alan Dershowitz, who explains why this tape does not prove a crime. (Please see video below for his full analysis.)
Not even close. No crimes here. This was a conversation between a client and his attorney that should never have been heard even if – and the tape is unclear – Trump raised the word cash, there was then a discussion and the lawyer said “no, no, no” and President Trump said no, we’ll do it by check. Lawyers and clients have those conversations all the time. I’ve had discussions like that with clients. The end result is that cash was not used, no payments were made.
The context of the tape all suggests that the President wanted it to be on paper. They wanted it to be a corporation, not just a payment, he wanted to make sure it was done right. He wanted to make sure it was done with records. And so, I think the big picture is no crime. It sounds like Cohen is not as loyal to the President as he once was. It also suggests that this conversation never should have been heard by any of us.
Some final thoughts:
- Whether Trump said “pay cash” or “don’t pay cash” on Cohen’s tape is irrelevant according to attorney Alan Dershowitz. He says that no crimes were committed.
- When Michael Cohen brings up the subject of Karen McDougall, Trump is clearly familiar with it. He is not hearing about this for the first time.
- Regardless of what Trump said on this tape, it has no relevance to the special counsel investigation into possible Russian collusion. It’s just a sophomoric attempt to embarrass Trump. Alan Dershowitz said that, if Cohen turns out to be the person who leaked it, he may be in legal jeopardy.
- This should be of no concern to anyone but Melania Trump. Americans do not care who Trump may or may not have slept with in 2006. To quote our friend Hillary Clinton, “What difference, at this point, does it make?”
- A lawyer who records a private conversation with a client will probably never practice law again.
- It’s safe to say that Michael Cohen won’t be receiving a presidential pardon anytime soon.
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36 Comments
5 years ago
New law firm, Avenatti & Cohen LLC
5 years ago
What Cohen did was inexcusable. Recording someone without their knowledge, then releasing those tapes, in an attorney/client relationship, should be grounds for being disbarred. What if Cohen’s client were a mobster. People disappear for a lot less.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
Criminal even … at least here in Texas Cohen could be charged for the wiretapping – a felony count for each client – and releasing the tapes. Plus defamation. Plus negligence for not securing the records. … Not sure what the Court of Criminal Appeals would say about Mule-4-Hitleries’ witch hunt and tactics, but I’m sure a lot of that material should not have been where it was, and should have been shredded long ago.
So Cohen should be going to jail for criminal penalties as well as paying civil judgments.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
He must have had one heck of a “motivation” to do all that. He had to know, as a lawyer, that what he was doing was wrong.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
He knew. And I’m not terribly sympathetic as to his getting himself into this mess. But it’s obvious that he was targeted unfairly – by the fruit of the poisonous tree – and if he was nothing more than a serial killer who raped and tortured his victims and ate their brains – all of the evidence Mule-4-Hitlary collected would be destroyed, and all the threats of charges against him would be dismissed.
And I am sympathetic to the innocent bystanders. I imagine Cohen’s friends, family, and distant associates and former colleagues are already under intense investigation to find something to pressure Cohen.
If this much effort went into stopping Drug Cartels in East LA … the nation’s illicit poison supplies would be as dry as my backyard.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
Ah yes but, “they” don’t want to stop the drug cartels. Much too much money to stop. And not just for the cartels.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
Right you are – in fact ‘they’ may be the cartel – the ‘front office’ men of the cartel.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
In New York, I think it’s not illegal technically, although it is still frowned upon and deemed highly offensive and unethical by some people.
5 years ago
Reply to
R. Arandas
That makes sense. If it’s legal there, he may have thought the value of taping his clients outweighed the risk of exposing the impropriety.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
This shows you how desperate Mueller is.
Trump has done nothing wrong.
5 years ago
Reply to
felix1999
Yep. It’s shameful what Mueller is doing. How long can this guy take and waste taxpayer money while producing nothing.
5 years ago
Reply to
felix1999
According to what we know now … Trump is probably the most Holy Man on Earth (excluding Jesus).
Think about it … if he had so much as an unpaid parking ticket or an unwanted peck on a girl’s cheek … we would have heard about it by now.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
Oh but, Mueller is still looking. He’s CONVINCED he’ll find something. Maybe Mueller can issue subpoenas to the convalescent hospital where Trump’s first grade teacher is residing. He can have his ‘Brown Shirts’ arrest her for obstructing justice by not being absolutely truthful about Trump’s classroom behavior 65 years ago.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
I think that’s true, but I also think he has to keep looking for other reasons too:
IMHO – I think he has too many skeletons in his own closet, and this witch hunt is the only thing preventing Trump from just tearing into the DOJ/FBI swamp with all the fury of a Cat 5 hurricane.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
I’m sure that is true. Mueller is dirty in probably more ways than one
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
Too much smoke around him. If any of us were smoking the way he is, we would have a half dozen agencies checking our tax returns, our email, our business and professional associations – not to mention going through our underwear. (And I throw that last one in b/c, oh, wait, yes – the FBI has gone through my underwear…. Just sayin.)
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
Yes, it’s the law-abiding citizens who always seem to take it in the shorts, pardon the pun
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
Oh, I forgot to add – we’d also have every fire department within twenty miles hosing us down …
5 years ago
Just another back stabbing crook. Mueller is only interested in cohen to get at Trump.
5 years ago
Oh, brother … to anyone even remotely familiar with the legal swamp in America today …
We know this is a shakedown of a celebrity in a lose-lose position.
Cohen is a disloyal traitor, pardon the pleonasm, but frankly … I can understand the pressure he’s under. His family is probably already getting death threats – from Mueller – and he’s praying to God that Mule-4-Hitlary will not find some technicality to hold over him or his loved ones.
He can’t be sleeping well knowing he may join Manafort in a cell any day now if he cannot find some dirt on Trump.
5 years ago
Reply to
santashandler
Can’t wait for someone to ask Cohen if he knows the definition of Arkancide … I expect him to s*** his pants.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
Mueller is looking for a CRIME because there is NO CRIME.
Cohen is a useful idiot.
5 years ago
Reply to
felix1999
True. Worse even.
Mule-4-Hitlary is trying to invent as many process crimes as he can. And he’s looking for any unrelated activity which may be spun into the appearance of a crime – which apparently is what he is doing to Manafort.
If they had anything on Trump or anyone in the campaign that even was an actual crime … all of us know it would have been Front Page News on the Slimes or WaPo long ago.
5 years ago
Reply to
Dan Knight
Those closest to people of power often stand to gain and lose the most, sadly enough.
5 years ago
Reply to
R. Arandas
Trump clearly said “don’t pay cash!”, not “I don’t want to pay cash” or “I want to pay cash.” Just liste, “DON’T pay cash”. Cohen is a schmuck.
5 years ago
Cohen has lots of shady business dealings. He will lie to get out of punishment.
Cohen is FINISHED as a lawyer even if he lies and evades prison.
NO ONE will believe or trust him. He tells clients, oh I WON’T RECORD you, then puts his cell phone in a drawer to RECORD THEM! So much for client attorney privilege! I used to feel sorry for him – NO MORE!
5 years ago
Reply to
felix1999
Trump must be a saint not going after Cohen after this. Suffice to say, more than a few earlier presidents would have ‘dealt’ with that problem.
5 years ago
You can’t really trust anyone these days, not even those closest to you. Sigh…
5 years ago
I know of something even more TERRIBLE. When the Negro was caught on tape COLLUDING with the Russians that should have been TREASONOUS to everyone and the Nerogro immediately arrested, for not having a BC either and having sodomy with old white men at the bathhouse and being an impostor “President”.
But somehow that Kenyan rat wih the big ears got away with it. But not the white-in-shining-armor. No mercy for him being white to waycist Demoncraps.
5 years ago
NO CRIMES WERE COMMITTED HERE!
This is just another attempt to SMEAR Trump.
5 years ago
Two facts stand out:
1. The quality of that tape is so poor that it would be inadmissible as evidence in a court of law, and
2. Lanny Davis is nothing more than a courtroom prostitute whose services go to the highest bidder.
5 years ago
I hope the imprison Michael Colon and he gets a non medical colonoscopy in prison.
