Would they dare throw a Muslim out? Or are there no devout Muslim social workers?
A free society is by its nature one in which people put up with others being uncivil and offensive. The alternative is a quiet authoritarian society in which only one opinion is allowed and the others are silenced, and ultimately sent to the camps.
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Felix Ngole posted the comments two years ago. Credit: PA
A devout Christian who was thrown off a University of Sheffield course after being accused of posting anti-gay marriage comments online has lost his High Court battle.
Felix Ngole, who is from Barnsley, claimed he was lawfully expressing a traditional Christian view and complained that university bosses unfairly stopped him completing a postgraduate degree in social work.
Officials at the Christian Legal Centre, which had backed Mr Ngole, said the decision was wrong and would have a “chilling” effect.
Deputy High Court Judge Rowena Collins Rice has ruled that university bosses acted within the law following a High Court trial in London.
Public religious speech has to be looked at in a regulated context from the perspective of a public readership.
Social workers have considerable power over the lives of vulnerable service users and trust is a precious professional commodity.
Mr Ngole had argued that his rights to freedom of speech and thought, enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights, had been breached.
But lawyers representing the university argued that he showed ”no insight” and said the decision to remove him from the course was fair and proportionate.
Mr Ngole posted comments two years ago, when in his late 30s, the judge was told. He was taking part in an debate on a Facebook page about Kim Davis, a state official in the US state of Kentucky, who refused to register same-sex marriages.
Mr Ngole said he had argued that Mrs Davis’s position was based on the “Biblical view of same-sex marriage as a sin”.
He said he was making a “genuine contribution” to an important public debate and said he was “entitled to express his religious views”.
University bosses said he had posted comments on a publicly accessible Facebook page which were “derogatory of gay men and bisexuals”.
I am very disappointed by this ruling, which supports the university’s decision to bar me from my chosen career because of my Biblical views on sexual ethics.
I intend to appeal this decision, which clearly intends to restrict me from expressing my Christian faith in public.
– Felix Ngole
The university, in investigating Mr Ngole’s personal Facebook posts and disciplining him for them, is acting as if they are thought police.
This ruling will have a chilling effect on Christian students up and down the country who will now understand that their personal social media posts may be investigated for political correctness.
– Andrea Williams, chief executive of the Christian Legal Centre
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CrustyB
6 years ago
Another example of how we live in an age of sissy worship. The west will never live this down.
RCCA
6 years ago
First I read the headline and I thought this was about someone being thrown out of a golf course for some anti-gay remark and thought, that’s unfair. What difference would his beliefs make anyway, who cares?
But this is about training a professional social worker, someone who should not be making anti-gay comments in a public forum. This isn’t about his religious beliefs, this is about his inability or unwillingness to keep private that which should be kept private. If he doesn’t have the innate good sense to separate his personal religious beliefs, he shouldn’t be let out in the world and given the authority and power to do harm. If he wants to be a politician or write a blog, that’s fine.
I can’t think of any single thing which has caused more harm in the world than distorted, “misinterpreted” religious beliefs, be they Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
Partially true.
There was, is, nothing distorted about his interpretation of Bible. Gay marriage is sin. Gay sexual relationship is sin.
Should I be persecuted now too?
Public forums like Facebook were created for people to connect, share their thoughts express their feelings etc. Just like this forum here.
This Christian publicly expressed his believe about gay marriage, based on Bible.
This man didn’t represent any public service by this, he represented his own convictions. He wasn’t presenting himself as public servant, was he?
To throw any man out of university for this, is totalitarianism.
He could be noticed, reminded by university, maybe told they don’t like his statements. Maybe they could ask him politely to remove name of their university from his personal profile on Facebook. That’s all
He did not call for hate, violence toward, and persecution of gays.
It wouldn’t be Christian.
But if you went up in public and read out Koran sura which point out the obvious violence inherent within islam, you would also be persecuted and legally so in almost all western states. They seem so determined to keep the little people blind , dumb and ignorant.
well…gay marriage is not a religious thing, it is only a civil contract between two consenting persons and is about equality such as taxes, inheritances, and other issues that do not concern any church.
Religion belongs in the church and in the intimacy of the home, not in public life. A country is not a monks’ or nuns’ convent! Some christian denominations perform gay wedding ceremonies because they have different stances and interpretations of the scriptures. That’s their business.
, I understand that liberal and reform synagogues do too. Whether or not one approves or disapproves is no concern of the government.
The only limitations to one’s personal freedoms are those concerning sexual abuse of children, dependants,mentally or physically vulnerable individuals and rape.
To LGBT people demanding that churches accomodate to their views and demands, the only advice I would give them is to forget about that! If the catholics, baptists or J—–‘s Wittnesses don’t accept their behavior, just don’t join those denominations or leave them, there are other denominations that will.
The fact that they are convinced that my (Jewish) religion is wrong (!) doesn’t give them the right to stone me to death, something the muslims do to those who leave the islam, commit “adultery” (a raped woman can be stoned to death for “having had sex outside of matrimony, a boy that was gang-raped in Afghanistan was beheaded because he had “lost his honor,”) in countriesl ike Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. where christians and Jews have no rights at all.
I’d hate to live in a “theocracy” be it islamic or under the laws of the “Holy” Spanish Inquisition that made my ancestors’ life impossible (a hell actually) in medieval Spain!
“This isn’t about his religious beliefs, this is about his inability or unwillingness to keep private that which should be kept private.”
Then you also believe that someone who posted remarks praising, or at least agreeing with, the doctrine of homosexual marriage on a personal web page should therefore rightly be expelled from a university course in social work?
So actually you were being entirely disingenuous when you wrote “This isn’t about his religious beliefs, this is about his inability or unwillingness to keep private that which should be kept private.”
What you object to in reality is not him going public with his personal beliefs, which you apparently think he should keep hidden in the closet, but rather that he committed lèse majesté, by presenting a belief in public that contradicts the position of the State.
I think you do not understand that this controversy is about his qualifications as a social worker in training, not as an accountant or a mechanic or an architect. As a social worker he’d be dealing with real people, not objects. Try to wrap your brain around that.
Professional schools have an obligation to weed out people who are not suitable for that profession. For example, someone training to become an elementary school teacher who announces on facebook that he believes in paedophila should and would be thrown out. We would not argue that violates his freedom of speech and be taken seriously.
So no, I was not being disingenuous. We’re talking about his suitability as a social worker, not freedom of speech. The guy was publically announcing and promoting a position which would not be helpful to vulnerable gay clients or their families if he were a professional social worker. He told the world he believes that gays are sinners and will be condemned to hell. Gay people have enough problems without having to sort out that their therapist might actually be antagonistic. That’s why he was tossed. The school has a responsibility to the public which it is trying to serve and help, not to this guy. I can’t say it any more clearly.
The problem with this discussion is that we don’t know from the article exactly what he said, but the gist was his comments were anti-gay. He was defending Kim Davis, a civil servant, who refused to do her job issuing marriage certificates to same sex couples. So how would he be able to be supportive emotionally to a gay person? It would be against his religious beliefs.
You can as a professional separate out your personal beliefs from professional life. It doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to freedom of speech on your Facebook page
There’s been a controversy for some time in the field of social work about this issue of people with strongly held religious objections. It’s part of the reason Muslims are not attracted to the field, because their personal and cultural beliefs are contrary to US social norms. I question how much people can separate their personal beliefs especially if they feel so strongly that they get involved in debates about them on public forums. Would you want to be a woman who needs help in an abusive marriage and be counseled by a sharia compliant Muslim? Would you want to be a gay child who needs help and be counseled by a devout Muslim or devout Christian, I wouldn’t.
You are thinking in terms of the rights of the guy to become a social worker, try thinking in terms of the hundreds or thousands of people who may be affected or harmed by that person in the course of a career. Likewise we don’t want bigots to be police officers or judges. We don’t want psychopaths to be surgeons or school teachers. People who reveal these types of tendencies on Facebook don’t deserve to be protected because they are “exercising freedom of speech.” They have a right to express themselves but society has the right to reject them in certain positions.
I should have said was that it wasn’t only about his religious beliefs per se. it was that he publicly stood up for Kim Davis who violated her official oath — and the principle that religious beliefs should overshadow professional responsibilities. Sounds a lot like the Muslims who believe their religious beliefs supercede secular law. I don’t agree with sharia compliance and I don’t agree with imposing Christian doctrines either.
Suresh
6 years ago
while xians are hounded out . Jihadis in America are working steadily to takeover and impose sharia drip by drip and Left/Liberal useful idiots are helping them out of ignorance or cash or stupidity.
Welcome to Islamic state of Michiganistan and it will soon have Muslim brotherhood approved Muslim stealth jihadi Governor http://bit.ly/2hGhVxY
Mahou Shoujo
6 years ago
The britishstinians will enforce shariah, which is enshrined by the european union. Christianity is a minor nuisance to the islamification of western europe and must be eliminated.
Michelle
6 years ago
The fact that this man is black is dire proof that free speech and opinion as we all know it is now GONE FOREVER in the once UK. Had he been white we could have seen it as the merciless antiwhite actions of the UK elite/Left/MSM but as he is black this is absolute proof that NO ONE can disagree with islam or the views of lunatic leftards in the once UK.
Sunshine Kid
6 years ago
Human rights does not exist in Islam. Women and slaves are owned, and the practice is justified according to the “prophet” Moham-mad (yes, I did hyphenate the name; get over it, because I have the “human right” to add a mark to a word, and a name is just a word, nothing more).
Qur'an 18:86
6 years ago
Ironically nothing in the christian bible says that homosexuality is a sin, though it doesn’t exactly enthuse about it either. In fact there was no such concept of “homosexuality” in ancient greek and latin language. However, this guy should be free to express his wrong religious beliefs just as Mohammed-worshippers are.
In most ancient societies mixing of the sexes was not allowed and men having sex with men was not a shame nor a crime. But once married they were supposed to stay hetero. Not sure what happened if they deviated but IMO stoning was never far away unless you were of the elite. There are many nuances of such in Homer. So I guess that places muslim attitudes to 500-1000 BC. Why the Bible (& Talmud) disapprove I have no real idea unless it was to decrease STDs but as an established practice in “those days’ they would have been hard pressed to do anything.
Not clear where Michelle gets her evidence from about all this.
“In most ancient societies mixing of the sexes was not allowed”.
In most of society before the present everyone lived in villages and primitive single-room residences and they most certainly were incapable of not mixing the sexes.
I beg to differ. Bible condemns homosexuality. Here’s what Bible says:
1 Corinthians 6:9 NKJV
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, …
Romans 1:26 …. God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Umm what is the difference between the last two? Bit of overkill there? Strange that both of those are NT as I feel certain that JoN would disapprove of BOTH of them and their like. In fact, if you look at the “lost gospels” (~ 12 IIRC they tried to destroy 28 of the 32 existing gospels as they did not like what they said)and the remnants of the others found(~6), you will find that not a little of the NT is not in keeping with the words and feelings of JoN and I find it incredible that so much attention is paid to the words of tax collector Saul and the others. Once the church took power in Rome it became as criminal as did islam in many of its actions although IIRC it was only guilty of one lapidation(stoning) and that was beaten to death by the Left in a movie.
You are right. The “Church Fathers” chose the four gospels that contradicted themselves the least, rejecting other gospels they called “apocryphal.”
Paul changed and abolished what his master himself practized. Christianity therefore shouldn’t be called so but “Paul’s Church…”
I don’t think Jesus would have approved of the Inquisition, the witch hunts by catholics and protestants, the massacres of the Albigenses and other “heretics,” the Night of Saint Barthelemy butchery, the wars of religions between catholics and protestants or between protestants of different denominations,, the blessings of weapons of Croatians by the pope during WW2 with which they killed Serbians who didn’t want to leave their orthodox faith to become roman catholics, the blessings of the planes that bombed Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War which were provided by the fascistic Mussolini regime that helped dictator Franco, who made the Catholic church the official one during the 40 year dictatorship. Countless protestant pastors were sentenced to death and shot by firing squads with the approval of the official Roman Catholic church, that enjoyed all kinds of privileges…
Things have changed however, the “Holy Inquisition” was abolished, Spain became a democracy and protestants and Jews enjoy freedom of religion in that country.
I very much doubt however that the islam will ever reform…those who have tried to modernize it have been killed or have to live under extremely difficult circumstances, leaving the islam menans a death sentence (fatwa…)
It is a good thing that the sexual abuses of the clergy has been exposed, that the RC church is taking action to compensate the countless victims thereof, it is also a good thing that they don’t have images in newly built churches, thus that they are amking amends.
As I have already written elsewhere, I don’t trust this “super friendly,” always smiling pope.
Either he is extremely gullible and clueless or….(you fill the blanks…)
All the best to you,
E.
Paul said to admonish, if they won stop, kick them out of the Church. Also the Holy Spirit-G-d’s Voice- dictated & oversaw what is written in the entire Bible. Remove the log from your eye, then you can see properly to help others who have a splinter in theirs,
Larenzo1
6 years ago
England a bunch of Nazis bastards. They do not have long before the muzzies run the place
notme123
6 years ago
Said he was taking part in a debate. Debates use to have two different opinions. I guess debating is no longer allowed, only discussions between agreeing parties.
the man is entitled to his opinions, right or wrong. Those who don’t agree with him should leave his church and the rest should simply not join his branch of christianity, of which there are hundreds of denominations…
peakpower
6 years ago
It’s official. The state religion is political correctness.
Doug Brown
6 years ago
England never repented for Henry VIII, the man that confiscated, sacked, and destroyed the Catholic Monasteries, Catholic hospitals, Catholic Churches, etc., in Britian during his reign. Bad blood, bad Kharma. The Anglican Church is a result of this fiasco.
Jan Favre
6 years ago
We need an alternative to face book. They blocked my comments for one week, because I posted that Muslim should be banned from the US, because it is too difficulte to identify good from bad people.
Dan Knight
6 years ago
Fair and proportionate … to dismiss an Anti-bigot and an Anti-hater to appeal to the malice, spite, hatred, sexism, and heterophobia of the Gay Mafia Nut Jobs! Outrageous.
Of course, this persecution against Anti-HATE has been going on so long the HomoNazis actually believe their filthy and sick ideology is true – when even Gays knows these nut balls are nuts.
D
dhd123
6 years ago
Just take in consideration where this took place, this is what Europeanism looks like.
smartypup
6 years ago
Truthfully it is leftism that is the true enemy of the world. Islam is just one of their strategies they are employing.
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D
