[ April 17, 2024 ]
This is so ridiculous — just like almost everything in the UK these days. When has a mosque been accused of being “anti-Christian” for refusing to hold New Testament studies in its hall? The concessions, the accommodations, the outreach, always and everywhere only flow one way. No one ever expects Muslims to reach out to the kuffar. And for the most part, they won’t — except with a sword.
“Church denies being ‘anti-Muslim’ after group barred from using Caernarfon hall for Koran studies,” by Hywel Trewyn, Daily Post, September 2, 2017 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
A Christian church has been accused of a “lack of unity” after it rejected a Muslim group’s bid to hold Koran studies in its hall.
Story continues below advertisementA group of Muslims wanted to use the Feed My Lambs church hall – a former infant school – for “Koran and cultural studies”, and they had already used it twice.
But after initially being allowed to hire the space, their cheque for hiring it again was returned to them.
Today, the Church in Wales said the hall – which was part-funded by Heritage Lottery money – was available for “secular” activities.
But Kenny Khan, the councillor representing the Muslim group – said the decision was disappointing and seemed like a backwards step.
‘I was very clear that they were Muslims’
He added: “It was all explained clearly to the church that it was for religious and cultural classes.
“I was very clear that they were Muslims. There was no ambiguity.”
Three days after their first meeting, Cllr Khan received a phone call from Llanbeblig Rector, the Reverend Roger Donaldson who, although not party to the arrangement, said there had been “a misunderstanding” and that they couldn’t accept the cheque for £320, which was sent to Llanbeblig Parochial Church Council.
Mr Khan – who is not Muslim himself – added: “Christians and Muslims joined together in Bangor after the Manchester bombing.
“The church knew it was going to be used for cultural classes.
“Two men from the church came into the hall to collect the cheque and actually saw the congregation praying on their mats.
“These people pay local taxes. The hall has been Lottery-funded and is for the use of the community. They’ve accepted the cheque and something has happened.”
But Rev Donaldson told the Daily Post there had been a “misunderstanding”, and that it was initially thought the group were looking to use the hall for bible studies.
He said: “The understanding was they were going to hold ‘bible readings’.
“We are not against Islam; no way. Everybody has the right to worship as they please.
“We are not against colour or race. It was just not possible. There has been a breakdown in our public relations.”
In a further statement issued today by the Church in Wales, Reverend Donaldson said: “Feed My Lambs is used for Christian worship and is considered to be a place of worship….
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34 Comments
6 years ago
Don’t just bar them from using churches. Bar them from entry to all free countries.
6 years ago
Reply to
peakpower
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6 years ago
How many mosques allow other religions to use their facilities to study… say Christianity, Buddhism or Hindu scripture?
6 years ago
Reply to
Ray_Sears
muslims can expect tot get what they give. It is good to see some people are not grovelling to muslims every demand.
6 years ago
Reply to
Mahou Shoujo
Churches need the money to survive as they run on donations and renting church owned space is sometimes a requirement. Mosques are funded by the Saudi petro-dollar and we all know that’s a bottomless pit of money. Muslims will never need to rent their spaces to Christians to create a situation like this. Its totally absurd that Mr Khan would complain but its not unexpected as this is the next step to agitate for the left wing media and fuel the Islamist campaign of divide and conquer.
6 years ago
Reply to
Johnny™
Bitching, moaning, raping and killing
That’s what little Muslims are made of…
6 years ago
Reply to
Johnny™
Then there is that issue of that black congresswoman calling for the assissination of president Trump…..and getting away with it because she is a black liberal.The leftist, liberal, islamic coddling congress appears to be siding with islamic extremism to its peak, and so, that should give the American Soldier the op-order to track and capture each politician conforming in ANY way or manner and send them to a field court established by the U.S.military. Ruling: hang the filthy, traitorous, two legged garbage cans at the gallows or use them as targets in a live fire training exercise….EYES WIDE OPEN…..
6 years ago
Reply to
Mahou Shoujo
I think the Muslims should be forced to allow the gays boys to use the mosques for leather nights… Diversity, ya know.
6 years ago
Reply to
wilypagan
As long as the boys are young enough that might not be a problem:
?w=600
References to this picture seem to be being scrubbed from the net.
6 years ago
Reply to
Mahou Shoujo
I would agree with your logic except this was NOT A CHURCH PROPERTY. It was a FORMER church property that had been ceded to the public domain and was funded by state lottery money. It was a public hall.
That’s the important fact people seem to be missing, even though it “looked” like a church and was often used for church purposes by congregations which RENTED it for that purpose, so the officials’ claim that it was only to be used for “secular” purposes was a lie, and they were simply trying to discriminate against Muslims.
Jumping to conclusions without paying attention to all the facts is exactly what those discriminatory officials WANTED everybody to do when folks read about this, hoping they could get away with it.
As I replied to Mr. Tyranny in another comment on this thread, civil rights are meaningless unless they are protected for EVERYBODY.
6 years ago
Reply to
Michael Jacobs
Like the social media like to pontificate “That is in violation of community standards” if the custodians of the property consider that inappropriate, they should have a say.
6 years ago
Reply to
Mahou Shoujo
I agree completely with that idea. Seriously, 100%. But the problem is, (A) the church that was the main occupant of this publicly-funded property didn’t go through proper procedures to establish those “community standards,” but instead tried to ban one particular group on an ad-hoc basis after already saying “yes,” and (B) they need to refine their definitions of what is and is not acceptable so that it’s not simply tailored to exclude the one group they want to exclude.
It’s exactly parallel to the recent (and ongoing) controversy over Ms. Geller’s bus ads. Metro cannot ban ONLY anti-Islam ads on grounds they are “political;” they would have to ban ALL political ads, and that, too, may be an untenable position, as courts have now ruled. So the ads are back, thanks to the efforts of LEFT-wing groups that were ALSO stung by the “Geller ban.” A society that believes in free speech should encourage MORE speech to counteract undesirable speech, not try to suppress what is deemed undesirable. Because, do you know how that works out? In places where “Islamophobia” is deemed “unacceptable,” THOSE voices are banned as “hate speech” while terrorist sympathizers are lionized. It’s already happening — and it is being HELPED by efforts to criminalize “hate speech,” which I oppose no matter who the “hater” is and what it is that he’s “hating.”
If the tenants of this publicly-funded building want to rent it out only for “secular” purposes, then they will have to stop using it for religious purposes themselves. (It’s not their main church; it’s a social hall.) And if they want to allow it to be used for religious services, GIVEN THAT it is a state-funded edifice, they need to open its doors to ALL organizations that want to use it and can pay the fee, without discrimination.
6 years ago
Reply to
Michael Jacobs
Not necessarily, community standards could still apply. If a secular tribe of cannibals wanted to use the property for a “pot luck supper” who’d that be appropriate? As britanistan has numerous vigorously encoded laws against hate, so long as it is that of muslims, they are enforced. muslims, are allowed to hate everyone else with impunity.
6 years ago
This will be the new “wedding cake” scam. Coming to a church near you with rentable facilities.
6 years ago
The Rev Donaldson needs a check up from the neck up in my view, IF he’s as ignorant of the Koranic mandate to subjugate by violence all non believers as he seems, he’s betrayed not just his flock but his calling too.
6 years ago
“The concessions, the accommodations, the outreach, always and everywhere only flow one way. ”
YUP!
6 years ago
A quote from Winston Churchill,
“In every country where Muslims are in the minority they are obsessed with ‘the rule of law’ and minority rights.
In every country where Muslims are the majority there is no ‘rule of law’ nor minority rights”
It works EVERY time for them when they squat in a western country with a democracy.
6 years ago
Reply to
felix1999
Indeed — but the problem is how to deal with that without in fact sacrificing the “rule of law and minority rights” that we in the West cherish. I don’t have an easy answer, but I can say this: getting disgusted with all the jihadist and stealth-sharia tactics to the point where Western authorities clamp down on Muslim rights is EXACTLY WHAT THE JIHADISTS AND STEALTH SHARIA SUPPORTERS WANT. It’s their best recruiting tool. That’s why Hamas in Gaza uses Arab civilians for human shields when they shoot rockets at Israel. They are a cynical death cult that doesn’t give a damn about Arab or Muslim lives any more than they care about Jewish or Western lives; as long as what they do FURTHERS THE CAUSE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST in their eyes.
So can it with the all-or-nothing “solutions” that would just make things worse. Perhaps the West could learn a thing or two from Israel about how to deal effectively with jihadism and Islamism without throwing out fundamental human rights and maintaining an open, tolerant, pluralistic society.
6 years ago
Reply to
Michael Jacobs
So Israel has dealt “effectively” with muslum terrorism eh chump? Is that why Israel has experienced 70 years of unending islamic terrorism?
6 years ago
The Bar-stewards tried to steal an entire Roman Catholic Church in my local Parish in the UK, with a very active Christian congregation. The blighters were afforded the proverbial inch and took a bloody mile and more! It took direct intervention from the Bishop and Rome to crush this conspiracy. The Moslems are still after the Church and have not a clue about how much deep offence hey have caused and continue to do so. Typical…
The RC priest was sacked too as he seemed to be in league with the perpetrators.
6 years ago
Reply to
Julian Farmer
Was this exposed by the media? i doubt it as it wouldnt fit the agenda.
please elaborate on what happened?
6 years ago
Reply to
Julian Farmer
Many of the RC clergy (and the Pope) seem to be collaborating with the Muslims. It makes sense that a bunch of repressed misogyist queens would find common cause with the women denigrating Muslim scum.
6 years ago
Going one way with lefty. Straight to their sewer. Moslems can seek you and when rejected call you anti-Moslem. But if they do that to a Christian they are never called anti-Christian.
But you are usually dead by then anyway. Ultimate expression of being anti-Christian, but that is NEVER mentioned by the MSM. Only the victory cry of “Allahu Ahkbar”. Whose side are they on anyway?
6 years ago
I’d stake my life on it, as I have done for my country, and like every jew for his and hers:
No Catholic congregation would ever be allowed to hold a mass in the room of a mosque as no Jewish service would be allowed to look at a mosque, much less step in its halls.
I have no doubt, that if ANY non-islamic service in a mosque, AS IF, would be required to preach the good relationship between Moses and mohammed and how islam shows its good side by ALLOWING a non-islamic group to hold service on its grounds…
Islam is to be wasted…..
6 years ago
I don’t know Welsh law on this, but in the USA, it would be illegal to turn down an application for a religious group to use a public hall on the grounds they are religious and that the hall is only for “secular” purposes, especially if the hall is rented to OTHER religions for THEIR religious meetings — as appears to be the case here. This is NOT a “church hall” any more — it is a PUBLIC hall, funded by State Lottery money, and should be available to ALL groups that want to use it and can pay the fee, regardless of the content of their meeting. This is invidious discrimination on the basis of religion (in the USA) and apparently so in Wales as well.
The parish council can’t have it both ways. If they want the “parish hall” to remain CHURCH property then they need to fund it themselves, and can exclude anyone from it who does not meet their mission. But once the property has been turned over to the STATE and becomes a public hall, they don’t have the right to exercise that level of control any more.
6 years ago
Reply to
Michael Jacobs
It’s interesting that you only show up here to defend muslums. So are most of your clients muslums?
6 years ago
Reply to
IzlamIsTyranny
You misread me, Mr. Tyranny.
I’m a subscriber to the newsletter; I read every column Ms. Geller posts.
But I only comment when I have something to say other than, “Me, too.” Which is pretty darn not-that-often.
6 years ago
Reply to
Michael Jacobs
Don’t think I haven’t noticed that the stacks of dead bodies killed in the name of islum, the thousands of British girls and teenagers raped and used as sex slaves or the millions of people being enslaved by muslums right now don’t seem to bother you at all.
6 years ago
Reply to
IzlamIsTyranny
Of course all those things bother me, deeply. It’s just that I don’t see much purpose in “preaching to the choir.” Isn’t that one of the things leftist SJWs do that right-wingers so often mock and deride — “virtue signaling,” it’s called? I’m not here to gather pats on the back. Rather, like Ms. Geller, I try to “speak truth to power” even if that makes me unpopular, a “gadfly” in the derogatory term some use. I’m here (and everywhere else I participate) first of all to learn (which calls for reading and listening, not pontificating), to correct factual errors I note, and to add an occasional opinion comment when I feel my viewpoint may add something of value to the discussion that nobody has mentioned yet. Otherwise, I keep quiet.
You seem to feel I am a pro-Islamist jihadi-coddler. I’ve told you before I’m an orthodox Jew and a firm Zionist. I’ve nearly gotten banned from some forums for what they (wrongly) deem “Islamophobia” when, like Ms. Geller, all I’m doing there is pointing out bad things done by some Muslims in the name of Islam. Many of those things I post elsewhere, I learned FROM THIS SITE. I don’t post about them HERE because YOU ALL ALREADY KNOW too, if you read the same posts I did. Duh.
It’s just that truth is an important foundation for justice, and justice requires balancing, not seeing everything as black and white (which it never is), and not throwing out the baby with the bath water. So firstly, I have no tolerance for propaganda that fudges the truth, or employs faulty logic or bad argument, regardless of which side is putting it out.
Secondly, If we are willing to sacrifice important civil rights (such as, the right to rent a public space without discrimination on the basis of religion) then not only the Muslims, but EVERYBODY, is the victim of that loss of rights.
Civil rights are meaningless unless we defend them for even the most despicable and unpopular fringe. That’s why, as we’ve discussed before, I supported the efforts of the ACLU to allow the Nazis to march in Skokie. Not because I like Nazis; don’t be silly. Because I like FREEDOM. If we allow a government or public entity to take away freedom for one unpopular cause, then we lose it for everybody.
6 years ago
Reply to
Michael Jacobs
You’re a firm Zionist eh? What about the last seventy years of unending islamic terrorism not only in Israel but India? Anything to say about that?
If you haven’t noticed muslums are eliminating freedom anyplace where they gain political power you’re either deliberately blind or a collaborator.
6 years ago
Reply to
IzlamIsTyranny
Dear Mr. Tyranny: OF COURSE I have a lot to say about Islamic terrorism in Israel as well as in India. But I have said it ELSEWHERE, on blog posts discussing THOSE issues.
I don’t like either of those things. But, that’s not what we were talking about, just now. And I also don’t like (A) injecting irrelevant points into a discussion just to make myself feel good, or “virtue signal” as we now put it; nor do I like (B) being subjected to a “litmus test” by interlocutors who want to see if I’m “good enough” to make my opinions even worth listening to, which is the flip side of (A).
Ms. Geller’s website really doesn’t make a point of going into the Israel-Arab conflict at all, so far as I have seen, except to oppose jihadism in general, which of course has some overlap into the Israel situation. Ditto re India (and Pakistan, and Bangladesh) and its Muslim extremists, and their honor killings, persecution of Christians, etc. Yes, I read about those here. Why should I comment on them, though, if I have nothing to add to the discussion?
You should know me a bit better by now. We’ve been going back and forth exchanging comments for months now. I don’t have to “prove” myself to be sufficiently “virtuous” to either you OR to the so-called liberal activists on other sites who SIMILARLY question my good faith because I actually dare to have INDEPENDENT opinions backed up by facts and reason, and do not just unthinkingly accept and echo back the “party line,” whichever party that might be. Call me politically incorrect if you must. I will wear it as a badge of honor.
