[ April 18, 2024 ]
Legal expert Eugene Volokh here ably explains why our AFDI/Jihad Watch Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest was necessary — and why those who are blaming me for the jihad shooting are wrong:
“Islamo-non-phobia, and the value of defiance,” by Eugene Volokh, Washington Post, May 4, 2015 (thanks to David):
Story continues below advertisementTwo apparent would-be jihadists drove to the Texas Muhammad cartoon drawing contest and opened fire. They wounded a security guard, who is expected to survive; they were shot dead by police.
Unsurprisingly, the organizers of the event — the American Freedom Defense Initiative, which has long been sharply critical of Islam — are being criticized for their “provocative” actions. Here, for instance, is a Twitter message from New York Times’ Rukmini Callimachi:
Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a “Muhammad drawing contest”?
This reminds me of the old joke: “Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the theater?” There is no “free speech aside” here.
But beyond this, I think there is a special kind of exercise of free speech here: speech as defiance. The organizers are sending a message that they are not afraid, either of those who would condemn us or even of those who would kill us — at least not so afraid that they will forgo their First Amendment rights.
Harsh critics of Islam are often accused of “Islamophobia”; and while the suffix “-phobia” means “aversion to” as well as “fear of,” I think “-phobia” terms usually convey (and are often intended to convey) an allegation of irrational fear. Well, the critics say, our fear is actually quite rational; it makes sense to rationally fear dangerous ideologies. But with events such as this, I think the critics are saying: it is those who condemn us for being “provocative” who are relying on fear of Muslim extremists, and we are the ones who actually act contrary to the counsel of fear. The winning cartoon (which got both the “people’s choice” prize and the jury prize at the contest) reflects that:
A different, more earnest and perhaps less catchy sort of defiance than that from Charlie Hebdo, and many of the original cartoons struck me as wittier. (Hey, everyone’s a critic.) But the message is pretty clear — and it’s an important message to have out there.
I disagree with much that the harsh critics of Islam assert; for instance, I have publicly and in detail disagreed with much of the “creeping Sharia” argument, and argued that many supposed instances of Islamic law intruding on the American legal system are actually entirely sensible applications of longstanding American legal principles. (See, for instance, many of the posts in this thread, many of the posts in this one, this National Review Online article, and this Oklahoma Law Review article.) But I see the value of such gestures of defiance — even when the gestures do carry real risk, including to the speakers, to those whose job is to protect them, and even to bystanders.
Let me close with a very different story, but one that I think reminds us of the many contexts in which defiant speech — or, here, symbolic expression — can take place, of the dangers it poses, and of the value of legally protecting it. The story was litigated before the Alaska Supreme Court in Hurn v. Greenway (Alaska 2013), and it began this way:
Simone Greenway and her friend Carrie Randall–Evans were dancing together in a suggestive manner and teasing Jeffrey Evans, Carrie’s husband, when Jeffrey left the room, returned with a pistol, and shot everyone inside, killing Carrie. He then shot and killed himself. David Hurn, the father of Carrie’s two minor children, sued, claiming that Greenway’s participation in the dance was negligent either because it breached her duty as homeowner to control her guests or because it created a foreseeable and unreasonable risk of violence.
The court held for the defendant, “[b]ecause property owners generally have no duty to control the conduct of third parties in their homes, and because murder was not the foreseeable result of suggestive dancing.” Yet there really was a good deal of reason to think that some such attack was “foreseeable” — there often is, with abusive spouses (or adherents of abuse-promoting ideologies, such as extremist Islam):
Greenway knew that Jeffrey had threatened Carrie with physical harm in the past; Carrie was afraid that Jeffrey would kill her; Jeffrey was a jealous man; on the night of the murder Jeffrey sometimes wore a “stone cold expression” that betrayed no emotion; and prior to Greenway’s dance, he had issued a veiled threat: “What would you girls do if someone came in that door right now, after you?”
So I think the court was really motivated by something expressed in a different of the opinion — a part that discusses the value of defiance, and indeed applies even when one is defying violence that is quite foreseeable:
Hurn asks us to reduce domestic violence in this state by imposing a duty to “refrain from teasing or bullying someone known to be potentially violent.” But we refuse to give victims the duty to prevent their own abuse and then hold them liable when they fail.
The record suggests that Jeffrey was an abusive husband. And if Greenway is liable for taunting an abusive husband, it follows that victims themselves may be liable for provoking their partners if the result is harm to a third party.
Some courts have already been asked to hold a recipient of domestic abuse liable under § 302B for the crimes of her partner. The Iowa Supreme Court held that a woman was not liable for the actions of her jealous and abusive boyfriend after he assaulted another man she brought home. [Footnote: See Fiala v. Rains, 519 N.W.2d 386 (Iowa 1994); cf. Wilkins v. Siplin, 13 Cal.Rptr.2d 634 (Cal.App.1992) (holding that a wife could be liable for inviting a co-worker to a remote cabin where he was attacked by her husband) (depublished by order of the California Supreme Court).]
These requests are particularly troubling where, as here, the “provocation” is an act of resistance. [Footnote: The sparring, dancing, and teasing at issue were a direct response to Jeffrey’s not-so-veiled threat to Carrie and Greenway’s physical safety: “[W]hat would you girls do if somebody came in that door right now, after you?” In response, Carrie and Greenway laughed, gave each other a high five, said “[W]e’d kick his ass,” and started sparring to demonstrate how they would repel the intruder. While they were sparring and dancing and laughing at Jeffrey, Greenway was [implicitly] expressing to Carrie: “[T]his is my domain, you don’t have to be afraid here.”]
We reject the idea that victims are responsible for the violence they endure in the home, and we will not blame them for their otherwise reasonable actions simply because those actions foreseeably result in violence.
Naturally, there are many differences between the Texas attack and the incident in Alaska (for instance, between claims of moral responsibility and claims of legal responsibility). But I think there’s a structural similarity there nonetheless: a similarity that helps to express the value, moral, legal, and social, of defiant expression, whether in people’s personal lives or their political lives.
For an approach that is in many ways the opposite of the Alaska Supreme Court’s, and one that I think is incorrect, see Touchette v. Ganal (Haw. 1996). For the thoughts of Nick Gillespie, editor-in-chief of Reason.com, see here (I found the Callimachi tweet through the Reason piece). For more on just how tame many of the original Muhammad cartoons were — tame under any secular standard of fairness, as opposed to a standard that members of some religion might want to impose on others — and thus how much speech would really be lost if people avoid “provocative” speech of this sort, see here.
UPDATE: I also disagree with the Council on American-Islamic Relations on many things, but at least part of this statement on the attacks strikes me as quite right:
[V]iolence in response to anti-Islam programs like the one in Garland is more insulting to our faith than any cartoon, however defamatory.
Indeed, it is the violent retaliation prompted by the cartoons (and by similar speech) that “defames” Islam in the sense of injuring its reputation — and not just insulting it — much more than the cartoons themselves do.
The Truth Must be Told
Your contribution supports independent journalism
Please take a moment to consider this. Now, more than ever, people are reading Geller Report for news they won't get anywhere else. But advertising revenues have all but disappeared. Google Adsense is the online advertising monopoly and they have banned us. Social media giants like Facebook and Twitter have blocked and shadow-banned our accounts. But we won't put up a paywall. Because never has the free world needed independent journalism more.
Everyone who reads our reporting knows the Geller Report covers the news the media won't. We cannot do our ground-breaking report without your support. We must continue to report on the global jihad and the left's war on freedom. Our readers’ contributions make that possible.
Geller Report's independent, investigative journalism takes a lot of time, money and hard work to produce. But we do it because we believe our work is critical in the fight for freedom and because it is your fight, too.
Please contribute here.
or
Make a monthly commitment to support The Geller Report – choose the option that suits you best.
Quick note: We cannot do this without your support. Fact. Our work is made possible by you and only you. We receive no grants, government handouts, or major funding.Tech giants are shutting us down. You know this. Twitter, LinkedIn, Google Adsense, Pinterest permanently banned us. Facebook, Google search et al have shadow-banned, suspended and deleted us from your news feeds. They are disappearing us. But we are here.
Subscribe to Geller Report newsletter here— it’s free and it’s essential NOW when informed decision making and opinion is essential to America's survival. Share our posts on your social channels and with your email contacts. Fight the great fight.
Follow Pamela Geller on Gettr. I am there. click here.
Follow Pamela Geller on Trump's social media platform, Truth Social. It's open and free.
Remember, YOU make the work possible. If you can, please contribute to Geller Report.
Join The Conversation. Leave a Comment.
We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism, profanity, vulgarity, doxing, or discourteous behavior. If a comment is spammy or unhelpful, click the - symbol under the comment to let us know. Thank you for partnering with us to maintain fruitful conversation.
If you would like to join the conversation, but don't have an account, you can sign up for one right here.
If you are having problems leaving a comment, it's likely because you are using an ad blocker, something that break ads, of course, but also breaks the comments section of our site. If you are using an ad blocker, and would like to share your thoughts, please disable your ad blocker. We look forward to seeing your comments below.
102 Comments
8 years ago
The jihadists are currently waging a propaganda war against us, trying to intimidate us and weaken our morale. They are also trying to destroy our right to free expression with regard to criticism of Islam.
We need to counteract this by destroying their morale and belief in their death-cult, but to do this we need to understand their psychology.
The Muslim mind is pre-rational, predatory and tribal. Appeals to reason are no use because they believe that faith is superior to reason, and the fact that the Koran is full of contradictions doesn’t bother them in the slightest. Islam hasn’t had an enlightenment and is still in the Dark Ages. In fact, the cult justifies itself in terms of a power-structure maintained by physical threats and lynch-mobs rather than reason or spirituality.
Appeals to normal human decency as an antidote to Islam are pointless. Muslims believe it is their duty to kill, maim, rape, swindle and rob the kaffir (unbeliever) – this is an intrinsic part of their cult. The ‘Golden Rule’ – ‘do unto others as you would they do unto you’ , does not extend beyond the boundaries of the Ummah-tribe. So displaying picture of the aftermath of Muslim atrocities is a waste of time – this will actually encourage them. Many Muslim men and boys get sexually aroused by watching jihad-snuff videos of kaffirs being tortured and beheaded.
Pointing out that Muslims are useless parasites on the West is also not going to make them change their ways, because that’s what they are unashamedly here for.
The way to get at them, is to damage their inflated and fragile egos. Because Muslims are at a tribal state of pre-civilised development, they venerate the totems of their tribe, and will go into tantrums if these are ‘disrespected’. Like unstable adolescents they are constantly seeking ‘significance’ and ‘respect’.
8 years ago
Reply to
guest
Excellent points. I think the (rightful) moralizing is more for the non-Moslem population, to illustrate what these primitives are like, what they do, etc.
How would you suggest damaging their inflated, fragile egos? Pointers?
Another point you brought up is that sex and violence are linked in Islam. This is a supremely dangerous combo and will create an army of sadistic serial killers (like we’re already seeing).
So time is short–how does one put an end to the new Dark Ages being ushered in at lightening speed by the “elites” (those wielding power in political fields, media, education, business)?
8 years ago
Reply to
Pete D.
Muslim men regard Mohammed as the perfect model of behavior, which is why so many of them are vicious pedophiles. A Muslim tries to become a clone of Mohammed in every way. So the easiest way of puncturing their over inflated egos is to ridicule Mohammed. This is why they go nuts at cartoons mocking Mohmmed – it’s a personal affront and challenge to their cherished ‘identity’.
8 years ago
Reply to
guest
Muslim men are pedophile? You must have spent decades with Muslim men to come up with such an analysis. I belong to a Muslim family, I have not met any pedophile so far.
Pedophiles, rapists and the like have no religion. Stop generalizing. Thanks.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
Islam and its Moslem followers who are too scared to leave Islam because of its death penalty, should take to heart this idea: “we refuse to give victims the duty to prevent their own abuse and then hold them liable when they fail”! Q-(—< a sketch of desert Bedouin Mo when he fell off his camel…
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
A sauce for a goose is a sauce for a gander, so they say. The Muslims could probably be more hateful if they hold an exhibit showing bad images of Jesus Christ. But civilized and truly upholding their faith & moral values, the Muslims don’t because Jesus in Islam is a great predecessor of Muhammad (sallallaho alayhi wa sallam). For those who consider Jesus as god instead, are you not inviting bad people to blaspheme your god as you yourselves started the war on blasphemy? Will you be right to blame them or it is you who should bear the blame. Think & reflect.
8 years ago
Reply to
guest
Excellent analysis, guest! It’s also important to realize that islam is not so much a religion as it is a rigidly controlling political ideology for a male-dominated tribal structure ala the 7th century. One need only look at the retrograde societies of the islamic countries to see the result of such an ideology over time. More than a hundred years ago a very observant and articulate man named Winston Churchill wrote the following after his exposure to the islamic culture of the time:
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as
a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
—Winston Churchill, from his book “The River War”, 1899
8 years ago
Reply to
guest
guest, I want to recommend Dr. Nancy Hartevelt Kobrin for your reading….
1.Penetrating The Terrorist Psyche
2. The Banality of Suicide Terrorism: The Naked Truth About the Psychology of Islamic Suicide Bombing
3.The Maternal Drama of the Chechen Jihadi
8 years ago
I agree with the Navy seal man, Bob O’Neil, who killed the master mind of 9-11, Usama Bin Laden, that this in-your-face Art Contest should never have been done. He said there is no reason to insult, purposely, Muslims. That said from as patriot of an American as you can get from the Naval Seal man who shot that stinkin terrorist.
8 years ago
Reply to
bobbyhead1
“That said from as patriot of an American as you can get from the Naval Seal man who shot that stinkin terrorist.”
Argument from authority. Nice.
8 years ago
Reply to
Chrissakes
I am sure our founding fathers would never agree that free speech is open pornography either. You got to use your brains as a Christian to win Christ to the lost and Muslims.
8 years ago
Reply to
bobbyhead1
OK, that is HIS opinion. The above articles talks a bit about such situations.
Quote:
//”We reject the idea that victims are responsible for the violence they endure in the home, and we will not blame them for their otherwise reasonable actions simply because those actions foreseeably result in violence.”//
It was an otherwise reasonable action! All Religions get taunted, baited, now and then, why not Islam? It simply is not fair!
And he and you must see context; The president and many other Westerners do say supporting and appreciative words about Islam plenty!
Is it not unreasonable then from Muslims to only look at the painful declarations of Westerners and not at the balance? Is it not unreasonable of Muslims to discourage “negative reactions to Islam, without equally discouraging all other “negative reactions to all faith, including Judaism” among their own fellow-Muslims?
Isn’t it more fair if either “all “negative reactions” were discouraged or none”? Especially by Muslims? Globally, as Muslims certainly are much connected globally these days.
He and you should not have “elevated expectations” of Americans (to withhold negative reactions) and “lowered expectations” of Muslims (to not withhold violent reactions) but have exactly the same expectations of all.
8 years ago
Reply to
bobbyhead1
How many times are you going to make this same post? This is (so far) the third time I have read it this afternoon.
8 years ago
Reply to
bobbyhead1
Bob O’Neil is entitled to express his opinion as is Pamela Geller. Free speech is granted by God to every American and cannot be rescinded by sharia. Free speech may be offensive – tough luck.
8 years ago
Reply to
Petrucio14
Our mostly Christian founding fathers never believe that pornography is freedom of speech, they would baned it back then “johnny on the spot” if there were computer, film, cameras or TV. Just like we had the censor board for TV and film in the early years of mass media.
8 years ago
But beyond this, I think there is a special kind of exercise of free speech here: speech as defiance.
Hear! Hear! And props to WaPo for printing the winning Motoon. That’s a lot better than they did in 2006, when only three major American papers ran any of the Danish ones with their coverage of the original furor.
8 years ago
“In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot.” Mark Twain
8 years ago
Not bad for Wapo. He needs to learn about CAIR and taqiyya, but it’s a start.
8 years ago
“….why those who are blaming me for the jihad shooting are wrong:”
Ms. Geller, while it will obviously hurt you that those who should be standing with you are not don’t be disheartened. Billions of World citizens are standing with and extremely proud of you.
‘This reminds me of the old joke: “Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the theater?” There is no “free speech aside” here.’
That says it all to the dhimmi-wits and all the other apologists and mudderate mohammedans.
8 years ago
Islam is peace, Muhammad was the last messenger, in order to believe in Muhammad you must first begin with believing Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus and all in between were the messengers or prophets to confirm your Muslim, the ideology of the Zionist are promoting the hatred against the biggest religion in the world if surely Muslims want to cut people’s head off I think the world would have a problem with 1.7 billion Muslims and they wouldn’t have a problem wiping the rest of the human race off the globe, but thanks to ignorance, unintelligent and Zionism vigorously feeds Islamophobia !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
LIAR!!!!
Take your muda’rat / taqiyya + kitman ELSEWHERE!!!! Enough of us know better – BEGONE!!!!!
DEATH TO ISLAM, MARXISM and NAZISM!!!!!
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Thanks Higlac thanks for wishing me death, I’m a US citizen I pay my taxes, I give charity to Churches and Fire houses, I respect people I look out for my neighbors I take my kids to play in the park and learn to socialize with all ethnicity, I clean after others, yes I’m a Muslim but I’m also American thank you for being such a good American and a classy character !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Congratulations!!!!
You think that wishing death to a cult-ideology is tantamount to wishing YOU death?!?!???
That just shows me what kind of an Untermensch you really are!!! Christians wouldn’t automatically take somebody wishing their religion to die as being equivalent to a death-wish against themselves; nor would Jews, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, &c. But you whining muzturds automatically howl “victimhood” as soon as your ideology is attacked!!!!
How INFANTILE!!!!! It only digs the grave for your cult-ideology that much deeper as far as we PROUD, SMART and LOVING Westerners are concerned!!! Your ilk have ALWAYS sought the subjugation and extermination of everything and everybody “un-Islamic”, and now that we’re waking up to your renewed threats and evil, you pretend to be victims?!?!???
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Nope I’m more American then you are and I don’t wish anyone death, but you did to me, so how do you want me to react ? I reacted like civilized human being the difference is I’m a Muslim and your the other guy wishing me death !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
A patent LIE!!!!
I never wished death upon you personally; however, I did and DO wish death upon ISLAM as the SATANICALLY-EVIL cult-ideology that it really IS!!!! Pure and simple – get it through your mind!!!
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Nope I can’t, it teaches too much love for me to absorb your hatred Zionst ideology propaganda it over powers your words they have no effect Islam is my belief and sorry to tell you it’s only going to triple next century and out number any other religion 6:1 proven so get it through your thick skull let me be and I let you be your self centered hating person you are, may Allah have mercy and guide you !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Before either Islam or Communism conquers the world completely, the Only-Begotten Son of God, Jesus (Ya’sua, NOT Isa who’s really Esau) My Lord Will Return and Save us all from exterminating all life on this earth, pure and simple.
And yes, LONG LIVE ISRAEL (both Ancient AND Modern), God’s Chosen People Whom He Favoured even while Punishing them!!
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
“LOVE”?!?!???
I see ZERO love from Moslems when they abuse and torture apes, pigs, dogs, women (who they despise as worth only half a man!!!) and non-Moslems!!!!
I see ZERO love in Moslems when they’re taught only to wage WAR by all possible means – they’re forbidden art, music, science and peaceful sports, in other words, anything that really brings joy, peace, hope and true glory to Him Who Created us: Yahweh, NOT “allah” (whose real identity is Satan).
Islam has NEVER, EVER, EVER grown peacefully – even one of your imams, Al-Qaradawi, said that it has always grown from the sword – i.e., via VIOLENCE!!!!
Truly, Islam, the “religion” of HATE, CRUELTY, MISERY, DESTRUCTION and DEATH…
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
It’s like your telling me I hope your car burns while your in it but not you just your car whole your in it thanks again keep spreading your hate, do you have any Muslims friends ? If so they know your true colors
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
How can ANY non-Moslems ever be truly friends with Moslems, given what you’re taught as follows? [All quotations taken from http://www.thereligionofpeace.com.]
Qur’an (5:51) – “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.”
Qur’an (5:80) – “You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.” Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.
Qur’an (3:28) – “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them…” This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that “believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly.”
Qur’an (3:118) – “O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.” This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.
Qur’an (9:23) – “O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers” Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates “slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them”).
Qur’an (3:85) – “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”
And from the Hadith:
Muslim (1:417) – Taken to mean that one’s own relatives should not be taken as friends if they are not Muslim.
Abu Dawud (41:4815) – “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man follows the religion of his friend; so each one should consider whom he makes his friend.”
Abu Dawud (41:4832) – The Messenger of Allah [said] “Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious.”
Bukhari (59:572) – “O you who believe! Take not my enemies And your enemies as friends offering them (Your) love even though they have disbelieved in that Truth (i.e. Allah, Prophet Muhammad and this Quran) which has come to you.”
Ishaq 262 – “Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Qur’an forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse”
Ishaq 252 – The story of a young man who converts to Islam after hearing Muhammad. He then tells his own father that he can no longer have anything to do with him because, “I have become a Muslim and follow the religion of Muhammad.” (To maintain a relationship with his son, the father “converts” as well). This is an important passage because it establishes that the principle of shunning is based merely on the status of non-Muslims as unbelievers, not on their relations toward Muslims. In this case, the father desperately loved his son and meant him no harm.
Yes, we know your lies and distortions: they go off our backs like water off a duck’s back. With such commandments against real friendship while aiming to deceive us “filthy, stupid infidels” with FALSE “friendship”, we have to know better!!!
[While we’re at it: it’s us INFIDELS who’re far smarter, cleaner, purer and wiser than you Moslems – contrary to the assurances of your Antichrist and FALSE “Prophet” Mohammed – can ever hope to be…]
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
You and your fellow-Moslems can NEVER, EVER, EVER be more American than the Christians who founded the USA and worked diligently to bring her to the spectacular heights she reached before that absolute TRAITOR and ENEMY Obama tricked everybody starting in 2008!!!
It’s the British and Dutch (later also German and Huguenot-French) settlers who were and are THE TRUE Americans…
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
No we won’t ever murder 400 million natives and call it a discovery and if you want to claim that America is ruined by Obama your right he had to clean up the mess after the 9/11 hoax the Israeli govt contributed to corrupt the middle east and use it as an excuse to break it’s wings but I believe Muslims will run America very soon and we will make it a safer place unlike You jews have !!
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Oh, but what does it mean if you would betray America in a second, if a Muslim leader told you to?
Can/ will you or can/ will you not repeat after me:
Democracy is HALAL?
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
100 years ago, Moslems like you, living side by side with Large PRE-ISLAMIC Greek and Armenian CHRISTIAN communities in Asia Minor, overnight, when incited by Moslem “clergy”, committed Genocide and murdered over 3 million Ottoman Christians, because the Moslem ideology instils modes of thinking and being that causes devout Moslems to hate non-Moslems as unclean and therefore sub-human! If allowed to become too populous in a land, this is how Moslems behave!
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
//”Muhammad was the last messenger, “//
precisely, and he lived what? 1400 years ago!!!
Imagine how illogical your belief is; ALLAH, who wanted to make sure mankind’s fate was better, sent his LAST message almost 1400 years ago!
And since? Nothing! can the text be improved, augmented, NO! It must stay the same, for 1400 years. NOT A PEEP from Allah in that period.
Please tell, us, how much longer will you Muslims be patient??? You probably LONG for destruction of MANKIND, just to prove your religion right!
8 years ago
Reply to
Demsci
No no no don’t categorize all Muslims to extremist that’s what your saying wrong why are you attacking my beliefs I’m telling Islam is love and peace to pray 5 times a day to give charity to go hajj one in a lifetime to fast one month out of the year and to take witness that Allah is one God and Muhammad was his last messenger to be nice to not lie to not do harm, quote to kill any human being is like killing all human beings from the Quran, we are against extremist and radicals like you should distinguish instead of attacking my beliefs !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
LIES UPON LIES!!!
All your nice words apply only between you and your fellow-Moslems!!!
Qur’ân 48:29: Those with Mohammed (i.e., Moslems) are cruel to unbelievers but kind with each other.
Qur’ân 9:5: (When the sacred months are over,) fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. [Hardly an “encouragement” not to do harm, kill fellow human-beings, &c.]
Qur’ân 8:55: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.
In the Hadith, Mohammed said “I’ve been made victorious THROUGH TERROR!!”
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
I don’t want you to die at all – I simply want you either to go back to the Moslem hell-hole you came from OR RENOUNCE Islam, PERIOD!!!!
LEAVE us “infidels” ALONE: don’t seek to live amongst us and try to conquer and exterminate us!!!! If you insist on doing so, we’ll have no choice THEN but to kill you because it will be either you or us. Given how much you hate us, just go away and STOP TRYING to force us to become like you. Pure and simple…
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Wish you peace and May God guide you to the righteous way, I love Islam so sorry that isn’t happening I’m proud Muslim American !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Truly, there is absolutely NOTHING to be proud of in Islam!!!!
Seriously, think about it. May God – the REAL God Yahweh (YHWH) – Open your heart and your mind. Call upon Him, the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – call in all humility and see if He’ll Answer you!!! [He rejects the proud and false…]
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Thanks for replying, I like to be polite, Sam.
I will spare my criticism on your beliefs then.
You mentioned the 5 pillars of Islam.
You no doubt would like many of us to convert to Islam.
We here, in part, have a meaningfull democratic ideology we like you to convert to that.
Our 5 pillars: Law above all, separation of church + state, free elections, freedom of the individual, freedom of speech.
But you can also stay Muslim and just repeat after me:
Democracy is HALAL. And:
Democratic Muslims, like I, Sam, am, choose good democratic Kuffars over bad extremist and radical Muslims???
Do that and most of us will accept you as you are.
8 years ago
Reply to
Demsci
And am being polite as well and telling you what Islam is the practice of peace we are also against zionism and extremist that are corrupting the world and I’m not enforcing my religion upon you I’m only wishing you peace and asking you to respect my beliefs !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Taqiya! You moronic troll! In Islam, the Satanic violent Medinan “verses” cancel the previous innocuous Meccan “verses” made up when Mo the Desert Bedouin child rapist and serial killer was weak.
8 years ago
Islam is peace, Muhammad was the last messenger, in order to believe in Muhammad you must first begin with believing Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus and all in between were the messengers or prophets to confirm your Muslim, the ideology of the Zionist are promoting the hatred against the biggest religion in the world if surely Muslims want to cut people’s head off I think the world would have a problem with 1.7 billion Muslims and they wouldn’t have a problem wiping the rest of the human race off the globe, but thanks to ignorance, unintelligent and Zionism vigorously feeds Islamophobia !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
With 26 conflicts world wide and daily vision of barbarism murders rape massacres . you vomiting garbage which is the best you can best you can
8 years ago
Reply to
Marko hersh
Are you talking about the Jordan air strikes against the Israel made ISIS or your talking about the Yemen strikes over the Shia militias, Shia that ruined the middle east with the help of the John Mcain and Israel, are you talking about Saudi air strikes against ISIS somewhere your lost because evidently the majority of Muslims are fighting against these political terrorist groups and the world’s sees it clearly just people like you and Pamela Gellar are zionist brainwashed or paid to infest hatred tell me an incident where Americans have been attacked from Muslims besides 9/11 which happens to be a set up by the jewish bank owners etc ?? You can’t then you wonder why a couple guys are attacking the contest of retardation of 200 people that have no morals to respect other religions !!
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Typical Moslem post. Refusal to take responsibility for the 1400 year long crime against humanity that is the death cult called Islam. All Moslems, males especially, are lying, arrogant, bullies!
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Sam, we know much about Quran-Hadiths-Sira.
And even if Israel DID make ISIS (it did not) that only shows the world how easy it is to trick Muslims by faking ISIS
and let many real Muslims (who do the 5 pillars of Islam) kill and oppress, all the time quoting verses from the Quran-Hadiths-Sira while they do it, saying they do it because of these verses, because the Prophet did it too. And they are right.
The Shiites also follow Quran-Hadiths-Sira.
There are many different interpretations of Quran-Hadiths-Sira, that is because they are 1300 years old, cannot be changed and are so easy misunderstood.
These texts cannot be trusted anymore. Allah sent his last prophet far too long ago. The message is no longer clear, if even the Israeli’s can trick so many Muslims with their own holy texts of Quran-Hadith-Sira.
If Allah or perhaps Muslim leaders will continue to do nothing soon even Smart young Muslims are going to see that and they will apostasize in big numbers. And that is your own fault for trying to follow such confusing texts.
8 years ago
Reply to
Demsci
It’s all clear nothing confuses anything its a beautiful revelation and it shows and tells the past the present (Muslims being suppressed ) and the future the Muslims victory and Jesus come back to rule the earth for 7… yet as an Muslim American what do you want from me and everyone else, you want us to die ?? To convert ? Or what I’m not ISIS and Jordan Saudi Arabia Syria etc are fighting them today that there Muslim countries so what is the purpose of everyone attacking Muslims verbally, physically is it to maintain Israels statehood and to ignores the Palestinians issue that’s all I see it’s Israel that has flaunted the world against Islam
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
No, your life is sacred for us, as long as you are not a murderer.
What we want is you to say: Democracy is HALAL!
And to say; As an American I am loyal to America and it’s laws first and foremost, even if Islamic law and other Muslims go against it.
We want you to tell us that it is OK with you that the other Americans do NOT have to live by Islamic law and so that they MAY draw Mohammed as much as they want, and show it.
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Sam, how long are you Muslims going to wait? It has been 1300 years, since your God sent his LAST prophet.
Did Mohammed really expect that it would take so long before Allah did something?
What if the day of judgement does not come for another 200 years?
What if Islam will not win?
Have you reckoned with all sorts of powerful computers and robots? And the people behind them, who are not Muslims? Very dangerous for Islam.
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Sure, bub. You prove it every time you let your fingers do the walking across the keyboard. You prove it with repetition. We all pretty much know the saying about repeating a lie often enough. Your comrades prove it every day in every way in public, in the park, in traffic, at the store. No matter. Years ago I made my decision when I evaluated all the jewish charitable organizations including hospitals and looked for corresponding Muslim charity outreach to non-members of the religion. The jews wiped the muslims off the map. So it’s easy to see who contributes more to the nation. Muslims only contribute to their own.
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
No the behavior of your own people has created Islamophobia which is a natural human response to your/their conduct.
8 years ago
Reply to
kookooracharabioso
Every religion has its extremists groups and religions do not preach that!
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
Take your muda’rat / taqiyya + kitman ELSEWHERE!!!! Enough of us know better, Moslem LIAR!!!! BEGONE!!!!!
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
How can you call me a liar when you don’t even know me. Stop tagging people based on their akin color, ethnicities and religious Beliefs
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
Islam is NOT – repeat, NOT – a true religion!!!
It is a politico-socio-economic cult-SYSTEM that governs every last single aspect of life down to the tiniest, most piddling imaginable facets (which foot to use in entering any given room of a house, what to use to wipe your ano-genital regions, &c.). In its utter totalitarianism, it’s perfectly comparable to Nazism and Communism!!!
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
You must be God :p
Is there any religion other than your own that you think is a true religion.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
LIAR!!!!
I know that 1) Christianity and 2) Judaism (upon which Christianity is founded) are the two that truly deserve honour, respect and thanks in all regards.
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Hahahah you wish ! How can you be such an idiot and not understand that till eternity there will be Chriatians , Hindus, Muslims and followers of many other old and new religions. This life is all about respecting others ‘ beliefs without imposing your own to be the best one around !
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
More taqiyya: you Moslems are repeatedly commanded to hate ALL non-Moslems and work for either their conversion, thorough humiliation or outright EXTINCTION!!!!
Not for nothing that over 1,400 years, Islam has murdered 275,000,000 people…
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Comanded by whom to hate who? Shut it man. I don’t hate proplE. I have some very close Hindu, Christian Muslim Sikh and Jew friends. Me and my family are fond of pet dogs. Sonu is the name of my dog. Free yourself of hatred. you are making your own life miserable. It seems that you have lived with Usama bin laden for decades.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
“Commanded by whom to hate who?”
Islam commands its adherents to hate non-Moslems, which it speaks of as “filthy, stupid infidels”!!!
In an earlier post of yesterday, I quoted a number of Qur’ânic and Hadithic sayings that back my point up.
As to your not hating people and having non-Moslem friends: either you’re deceiving yourself (meaning you’re a “bad” Moslem in Mohammed’s eyes) or them (which would THEN be quite in character with Mohammed)!!!! Either way, you thus are untrustworthy and consequently unfit to live outside of dar al-Islam!!! [Also, where distrust is present, hatred follows given what your ilk have been and are doing…]
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
By that logic, you must be severely anti Islamic. Islam allows no deviation from its ideology. All must eventually convert, submit or be killed.
8 years ago
Reply to
Alan
This is how YOU have been brought up . you need a reason to hate the human race. I have seen good and bad Christians. Based on the unfortunate incidents pertaining to Christians I would never generalise and set my mind to hate ALL CHRISTIANS. That’s stupid!!
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
Where are the Bhuddist terrorists? The Christian ones? The Jewish ones? Why do Moslems kill and oppress non-Moslems whenever they get the chance?
8 years ago
Reply to
Alan
LOL they aRe certainly not in my pocket. Spare some time and Google Christian terrorists and you will find many. Read how they burnt women scientists alive in the name of Christianity and you will not be proud
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
Anyhow instead of playing the “who killed whom” game why can we not focus on the goodness of hjmanity . If some Muslim organization’s are doing wrong I condemn them that’s all I can do but I will not take your hatred for something I have not done
If you believe that all Muslims should be punished and hated for what some of them are doing then do not spare yourself from the wrongs of Christian forefathers
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
AKA, Pamela Geller is defending our own ideology, it is being Democratic Citizen. Islam is your ideology. So let us see what is reasonable between 2 ideologies.
We Democratic Citizens will never hurt the bodies of Muslims or infringe on their rights. In this sense there is no punishment.
What Muslims get from us is both praise and support sometimes (President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron and many Westerners, newspapers, magazines, praise and support Islam and most Muslims often).
But also Islam and Muslims get criticism, negative judgement, but only verbal, non-violent.
And that is only fair because we know that in Muslim countries and communities Westerners, Jews, Kuffars also get a lot of criticism, negative judgement.
You say you condemn if some Muslims organ. do wrong. But can you do more? Actually side with good democratic citizens against bad, theocratic, anti-democratic Muslims, who really mean us harm?
Can you say to good Democratic Citizens and Anti-Democratic Muslims: I, as Muslim, declare that Democracy is Halal! As it is in Turkey and Indonesia already!
If you don’t, and only stay neutral, these anti-Democratic Muslims who use so much violence destroy the trustworthyness of the other Muslims with us Democratic Citizens. You can’t blame us for that, you should blame the anti-Democratic Muslims for that.
Staying in a religion and refusing to clearly take sides, those are choices, and we Democratic Citizens hold you accountable for those choices.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
This is OK, Democratic Citizens only want to coexist. But in our democratic countries OUR LAWS and Values must be more important than Islamic laws that contradict them for all Islamic citizens. Islamic citizens must be more loyal to the democratic country they live in than to the Ummah they also belong to.
The Muslims that live in Islamic countries we will leave alone.
But if Muslims in Democratic Countries get the same rights as all others, then it is only fair that the Muslims in Islamic countries also give the same rights to non-Muslims in their countries.
So if you want to look fair and be pro all of humanity you should condemn Saudi Arabia which does not allow churches in Saudi, while the Democratic countries do allow many Mosques in their territory.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
Someone is missing something. Islam is not by a single race, it is universal. Why fault Muslims in other countries? When Islam enters the heart of your wife, son, & kins, then that’s it. He becomes a Muslim. Look at Muhammad Ali, nobody is at fault for his entering the fold of Islam. The Muslims in other countries may be hateful but how about the American Muslims? Have they done anything against you or against America that is now driving Pamela Geller, Geert Wilders to insanity if Islam & the Qur-aan is not banned in the West? Think & reflect. Tomorrow, who knows, Islam will suddenly be in your heart.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
AKA, we have our own lifestyle, ideology, that is almost like a religion to defend; it is being a Democratic Citizen.
Is your ideology Islam anti-democratic or pro-democratic? Is according to you Democracy “HALAL”?
If your ideology Islam is anti-Democratic, if you choose Islam over our ideology of Democracy when Islam and Democracy are in conflict, tell us honestly.
We can respect an honest enemy, but not a lying one.
Is Islam at some points contradicting our democratic ideology or not?! If it is, will you choose Islam over our democratic ideology or not? If you do that, are you not then at least accountable for being hostile to our ideology, which we love as much as you love Islam?
8 years ago
Reply to
Demsci
Live in a Muslim country where democracy is practiced. A lot needs to be done in my society in terms of education and health. Why would you ask such questions ? Are you guys aliens ? Have you NEVER interacted with Muslims before? I would love to bring my Christian and Hindu friends on this portal and I’m sure they will be as shocked to see your comments as I am . But let’s spare them from interacting with idiots who can think in one direction like a robot only
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
There isn’t ANY such Moslem country where democracy is truly practised, sorry!!!
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
Agreed. There is NO country in the world where democracy is truly practiced.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
That’s an absolute LIE!!!!
The USA has been the beacon of true democracy for over 200 years now, and it has spread to Eastern Europe since the collapse of the USSR, God Be Praised!!!
It’s only under Obama that the USA’s democratic infrastructure has been heavily damaged and is on the point of destruction.
8 years ago
Reply to
Higlac
USA is truly democratic? Jajajaja You think Bush’s regime was appreciable? Kudos !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
All “prophets” after Jesus who is God, are false. Jesus is the final revelation of God.
8 years ago
Reply to
Alan
You certainly are a Christian extremist. everyone considers their religion to be the best. The reality is that a person good at heart does not religion to do good for this world. Others born with a religion can keep nagging everyone else for how wrong their religion is.
8 years ago
Reply to
aka
All you Moslems know is EXTREMISM by MURDER, RAPE, THEFT, DECEIT, TORTURE, SADISM and the rest!!!
There is no “golden rule” in Islam, especially for those it hates!!! In Christianity and Judaism, the truly GOLDEN rule is: do unto others as you would have them do unto you!
You sadistically torture and butcher innocent dogs (Mankind’s BEST Friend), pigs (also a vital friend to Man), apes (very notably in the same regard), women (half the entire human race) and non-Moslems (which your Qur’ân demands over 109 times that you must subjugate and exterminate or convert them to your DEMONIC Islam!!!) – spirits who NEVER do things unprovoked, and who usually want to live in peace and amity with everybody. The trouble is that Mohammed was the most intolerant bigot imaginable; and his absolute intolerance for anything and anybody else is revealed in everything he said and did. And you expect us “infidels” to shut up over all these things????
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Repeating this nonsense doesn’t make it true. Your post is a lie from beginning to end. Mohammad contradicted the message of peace and reconciliation with God that Adam, Moses, Abram (Abraham) and Jesus brought. His message was one of submission, not to God but to a pale reflection of God called Allah. To believe in Mohammad’s imaginary god is a repudiation of those who went before.
8 years ago
Reply to
Petrucio14
Nonsense or not I don’t care what you say, think or get your stories from, surely isn’t the same book I’m reading or believe in, are you one of those Zionist paid web people , paid to instigate and spread Islamophobia ??
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Someone who disagrees with you is automatically a Zionist or paid to post? I’m spreading animosity against Islam because I challenge your lies? Your fairy-tale is ridiculous from beginning to end. I don’t need to be paid to repudiate your propaganda.
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
What would mohammed think of these two muslims who drove half the country from Arizona to Texas to murder those who would draw pictures of him? Would mo condemn or support such an act of Islamic jihadism?
8 years ago
Islam is peace, Muhammad was the last messenger, in order to believe in Muhammad you must first begin with believing Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus and all in between were the messengers or prophets to confirm your Muslim, the ideology of the Zionist are promoting the hatred against the biggest religion in the world if surely Muslims want to cut people’s head off I think the world would have a problem with 1.7 billion Muslims, they wouldn’t have a problem wiping the rest of the human race off the globe, but thanks to ignorance, unintelligent and Zionism vigorously feeds Islamophobia !
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Islamophobia is a made up hate word intended to falsely accuse as “haters” and thus to to exclude any genuine and informed critics of the Global supremacist and fascist Islamic Jihad from the free exchange of free speech in the public square!
8 years ago
For years professional talkers/writers have been bobbleheading over the issue of Islam in the US – that Muslim’ s will not assimilate, that the tenets of Islam will take precedence over American values as codified in our Constitution. . . . and getting paid for all this conjecture – which has basically been just a bunch of talk as in four letter word fornication while our government has been flooding the nation with how many Muslim “immigrants” that we the rank and file have to put up with on a daily basis. We know that many of them receive ” benefits” from our social safety net that they never paid into. We know that our government buys them cars and housing. In most areas all, or almost all, small business or franchise opportunities are amazingly all owned/operated by foreign born when millions of US born for some reason do not qualify. The Muslims in particular are extremely nasty to US born seemingly every chance they get. If someone looks jewish to them they have zero problem openly harassing them in public. They respect no race, no age, nothing. Our LEO’S have been told to not enforce the law on them which is why you see them driving like fools, parking anywhere they please, harassing citizens any way they can, harassing store employees to the max, expect royal treatment – like not having to wait in line like everyone else. They are intolerable and the only thing that corrects their behavior is superior physical force.
So to my mind, Pamela Gellar did a performance art piece that can end all the talk. The Garland incident gave us the answer for anyone who still was on the fence, still unsure, still hopeful for eventual assimilation. Of c. ourse it was contrived . . .most performance art are (at one end anyways) but for any lingering doubters the very predictable response did occur. Also predictable is the traitor media that abuses their Constitutionally provided privilege by spinning everything, labeling Pamela Gellar a hater, an anti. She could also be called a lover of the USA that was reflected by our most important documents that the pretender in chief is supposedly a scholar of. Pamela Gellar could be called instead of provocateur, a patriot (oh no, that’s dangerous) mmmmmm. . . .a performance artist demonstrating the need for Reform Islam. . . .
When will birthright citizenship matter? When do we get to vote on who gets to come here?
8 years ago
we have a greater threat from the progressive judges
8 years ago
Muslims will run America and wipe Texas off the map lol haha so you better move to Dearborn or Patterson or California there’s a lot of Muslims
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
Good luck with that, but I’m not holding my breath. Americans are made of sterner stuff and will not relinquish their freedom as middle-eastern cowards have. Muslims will find the destruction of Texas, or any other state, much harder in reality than in your imagination. If you dare try it, a great many more Muslims will be barking in hell.
8 years ago
Reply to
Sam
PRECISELY WHY we PROUD, SMART, WISE and PURE “infidel” Westerners will have no choice but to round you muzturds ALL up and either deport or kill every last single one of you.
When it’s a question of “kill or be killed”, we can fight as well as anybody else!!!! We fought you off in the first siege of Constantinople (717-18), the Battle of Poitiers (Tours – 732), Vienna (1529 and 1683), Malta (1564), Lepanto (1571), the second battle of Mohács (1687) and LOTS of other times all the way up to and including the 20th century!!!! We Westerners will arise IN SPITE OF everything you Moslem virii and bacteria plus your Marxist allies try to hurl at us!!!! We have the TRUE GOD (YHWH – Yahweh) and His Only-Begotten Son Jesus Christ on OUR Side, and He in the worst case WILL THEN Return and put you germs into your place while the wild boars and dogs plus the fowl of the air will lick the blood from out of your bodies at Armageddon while others of your “Palestinian people” will flee back to your homeland of Saudi Arabia which will be burning with its oil for a good long time indeed!!!!!
Yes: long live apes, dogs, pigs, women and non-Moslems!!!!! Also (and I’m neither a Zionist nor paid by anybody), LONG LIVE Israel!!!!
