Israeli Knesset moves toward recognizing Armenian genocide

pamela:
you are owed a great debt for your dedication to this story.
others would bury it, as q”inconvenient truth.q” you will not let the issue go.
for this you have my great admiration, among many other reasons.
john jay
milton freewater, oregon usa

Surely the Jews have more courage than the whole Western lot of us. Shame on us.

they are so pitiful.god bless them.

I had an argument w/a Turkish Muslim pig about the Armenian Genocide once. He denied it and suggested the Armenians were the ones slaughtering Turkish Muslims. He also denied the Istanbul pogrom against Greeks and Jews in the 1950’s — at this point I told the short, swarthy Muslim pig to FOAD.
At UCLA there used to be a Turkish history professor who actively denied the Armenian Genocide (he happened to be responsible for teaching WW1 history and Turkish history). Armenians blew up his house, unfortunately, the Muslim pig wasn’t home at the time.

Bout time Israel does the right thing. I beleive not only the Armeniens, there was a million or so Greeks, Assaryians and even something like 250,000 Jews that were slaughtered. YA, it must of been because of Israel. All that @ss suckin with Turkey shure paid off. LOL!

Iranian Jews don’t publicly support Israel either. Coptic Christians in Egypt don’t dare support Israel or Jews publicly and it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out why.

Way to go, our brothers and sisters in Israel!

friends:
a very interesting and intelligent discussion by the group here at atlas shrugs, which i find not surprising in the least.
the discussions here are usually pretty frank, freewheeling, and not at all inhibited by considerations of favor or “party line” of the blog. very interesting, compared to other places inhabited by toadies and apple polishers.
the best blog around, i think, for a whole lot of reasons.
john jay

Finally! They have stopped f-g political games and brown-nosing toward Jewish natural enemies and they started to spell the truth. And it doesn’t matter that majority of Armenians are as anti-Semitic as the rest of the lowest of Earth population. The truth about islam must be told.

that’s just damnable and repulsive, just g-dawful

@Alyn Starkman, I love it when ignorant people blabber about what they think they know about.
First of all, you “guess” recognizing the Armenian genocide is the right thing to do? Do you have any Jewish ancestry at all, because if you do, I want to tell you that I too “guess” that recognizing the Holocaust would be the right thing to do. No wait, let me “guess” again. OK, can I get a couple of more minutes to “guess” about this very, very difficult question? It’s really shocking that the Jewish people, of all people, are taking such a long time to “guess” about such a thing. What a shame.
Second, if you think the Israeli government is doing this for the Armenians, you’re delusional. The main beneficiary of this whole thing is the Israeli government itself (90% of the benefit I’d say). It’s their response to the Turkish flotilla and all the hard-balling they’ve been getting from Turkey lately. The Armenians have been pressing this issue for literally decades and the only response they got from the Israeli government was to block all such discussions so that poor little Turkey wouldn’t get its feelings hurt when they’re told to go wash the blood off their hands, as if Turkey will ever give a damn about Israel – another example of delusional thinking. These are people who used axes to decapitate their neighbors in daylight by the river, not that long ago. The same ideology that made them do this is still with them, ready to be activated and fully-functional in a couple of years (and enough people already have it ON and READY), and they will try to wipe you off the same way if they can.
Third, you said “Coptic Religious leaders were never required by the Egyptian government to attack Israel.” Hello, again another statement showing how you have no real experience with the people you’re talking about. The Copts in Egypt have been fighting for their survival for decades and they’re fending for themselves alone, because they get no real help from anyone including Israel. Their church leadership are doing exactly what Israel has been doing with Turkey: praying that if they’re really, really nice and say what the Muslims want them to say, maybe the Muslims will have some mercy on them and let them live another day. At least Israel is a country that has a military; the Copts are a group of people who live within the larger population and are much more vulnerable.
What are the alternatives? If they say they’re pro-Israel like one Christian blogger did, they end up in jail (search Maikel Nabil). If they don’t say anything, Muslims will take it as proof that they’re secretly siding with Israel (the enemy), which by the way they’ve ALREADY been openly accused of even in Egyptian Parliament. Read a Christian Bible and you’ll know why, it has just as much Jewish Bible in it, and Muslims HATE Jews, HATE THEM, HATE THEM, HATE THEM. When everybody around you is foaming at the mouth against Israel, you’re under pressure to send some token people to join in the hate so that the whole group doesn’t get accused of being “less Egyptian” and “less patriotic” and “with the enemy” and all that.
So yes, it’s not like their church gets an official memo that they have to bash Israel or else, but they know that if they keep silent, they’ll be spelling their end, and watch what will happen if just 2 newspaper articles came out saying that the Christians are supporting Israel or even seem to be supporting Israel. God, 10 thousand Christians will have their heads chopped off in a day of anger, and no international organization will step in quick enough to do anything about it. They’re already being killed by the 100 for no reason. So you’re wrong: the church leadership are absolutely required to attack Israel, because that’s the only way to divert the attention just slightly away from them and stay on the good side of the Muslim majority for just a little longer.
Then again, why do you care what a vulnerable minority group like the Copts says about Israel, when Israel (a minority group that is a million times more powerful) doesn’t have enough balls or decency to call (just call) the Armenian Genocide by its name? You’re all playing the same game, so excuse each other and shut up.

@Alyn Starkman
No, I’ve read your post very well, and was directly responding to specific points you’ve made. Let me quote you then so there’s no confusion.
You said: “do the Armenians really appreciate Jewish support or is it simply a temporary lifeline until things get better for them… “
Your distrustful tone aside, do you really have that little understanding of politics? Who cares whether the Armenians “appreciate” it or not. It’s not like Israel is doing this for the Armenians anyway. As I said before, Israel is the main beneficiary of this move. If that’s not enough for you, I’m not sure what is.
But, I can tell you what the Armenians don’t appreciate. They don’t appreciate the IDF repeatedly taking the Armenian Genocide recognition issue off the table for the past 20 years. So today, when Israel decides to use the Armenians to twist Turkey’s arm, the Armenians can see this for what it is. Israel was glad for the past 20 years to ignore the Armenian Genocide, and now that Turkey is showing its true feelings for Israel, Israel is again glad to have the Armenians to use them to slap Turkey. Nothing has changed really, and the Armenians know they’re not important – they know this is all about Turkey really.
This will end up in 1 of 2 ways: Either Israel is really pissed off and has decided it wants to slap Turkey all the way and acknowledge the Armenian Genocide, or Israel is pissed but not too pissed, so they just want to just remind Turkey that they’ve got something under their belt that can make Turkey look bad (the Armenian Genocide is a big deal for Turkey and they spend much effort lobbying the governments of important countries to not call it a “Genocide” because it doesn’t sound good on their record). Either way, it’s game well played by Israel, but get over yourself about the Armenians “appreciating” anything. They know they’re just a secondary beneficiary, and they know the Israelis wouldn’t be doing this today if it was going to harm Israel in any way.
About this being “a temporary lifeline” for the Armenians. First, it doesn’t really help them much, it’s not like a joint trade agreement that will boost their economy. It’s just something small in the publicity area. Second, let me educate you a bit. In terms of real benefits, the Armenians got Russia for them, and they’re not holding their breath for much support from Israel, especially that Israel hasn’t cared about them for a long time. On the contrary, some of the most degrading comments ever made about the Armenians were made in the Israeli Knesset when the Armenians (Israeli Jews of Armenian descent) tried to push for the genocide recognition in Israel. But anyway, the Armenians aren’t holding their breath. If Israel recognizes it, great, but they know that this whole thing is happening now because it serves Israel well.
You said: “I notice in the case of the Copts that while they are happy to receive our support their religious leaders do not hesitate to slam Israel and the Jewish people when the opportunity arises.”
Israel has never supported the Copts in Egypt in any way. I’m sure of this, because the Copts are still alive today. You really have no understanding of the political climate of that region, and how Israel supporting any minority group there would devastate that group. Israel has never made contacts and has never reached out to the Copts in Egypt. If you have evidence of an Israeli policy that shows relations with the Copts or the Coptic church, I’d be very interested to know about it.
With that correction to your misinformation out of the way, regarding the Israel bashing, refer to my previous post. The Copts as a group are all about putting displays of unity with their Egyptian Muslim “brothers” so that their Muslims brothers don’t feed them to the sharks in the Red sea. If this means a little Israel bashing every now and then, so be it, whatever it takes to live. It’s not like they owe Israel anything anyway (now that I’ve corrected your little misinformation). You also shouldn’t say “slam Israel and the Jewish people.” These are 2 different things. I can see how they may direct their slamming at “Israel” but slamming the “Jewish people” doesn’t make sense. In the Middle East, only Muslims do that.
You said: “Historically Christian control in the Middle East meant lots of hardship for Jews”
Are you talking about real history or some other history from a parallel world that we know nothing about? Can you give a time period when the Middle East was under “Christian control?” From the history that I know, whenever the Middle Eastern Christian community flourished, the Jewish community flourished with it. That’s because Jews and Christians were always together as minorities in the Middle East, first at the mercy of the Romans, then at the mercy of the Muslims.
The Jews were persecuted by the Romans when the Romans controlled Israel and the temple was eventually destroyed (and the Romans of that time weren’t Christian, that was pre-Christianity), and the Middle Eastern Christians were also persecuted by the Romans when they began converting to Christianity, because the Romans looked at Christianity as another flavor of Judaism. When the Roman influence lessened, both communities flourished. I remember reading a Jewish story about Alexandria having 100,000 Jews which at that point was about 1/3 of its population. Then the Islamic control began and both Christians and Jews again suffered together. So I have no idea what you mean by “Christian control” and how it “meant lots of hardship for Jews.” In the Middle East, the Christians were always friends, whether they show it or not.
You said: “And the fact is there is no evidence indicating what you said about the Copts having to make anti Israel statements. In fact when their religious leaders did so, Copts in other parts of the world condemned them for it. So if their religious leaders were really under pressure as you indicated to show anti Jewish sentiments then why would their co religionists not provide the same justification that you are.”
Thanks for proving my point. The Coptic priests that you see stationed outside Egypt are all hired and sent by the Coptic pope in Egypt, so they’re not his co-religionists; he’s their boss. What you need to understand is that the Coptic pope is a politician, and a bad one at that. You’re right that the Copts outside Egypt criticize the church in Egypt for criticizing Israel, but most Copts in Egypt have no interest in the church criticizing Israel either. The difference is that the Copts outside Egypt are free, whereas the Copts inside Egypt are not. Their leadership however inside the country thinks they have a better chance protecting them this way, and they haven’t been successful anyway, which is why even the Copts inside Egypt hate their pope. I’m not going to write an essay here on a public blog, but I know about these issues and you’re grossly misinformed.
You said: “If you are not Jewish then you probably would never understand”
Yes, the goy just never gets it. No matter how many Arthur Balfours or Steven Harpers or U.S. Congress members who’re willing to go out of their way to support you, some Jews can only see the goyem as people who “would never understand.” I laugh when I hear how some ultra-orthodox are upset about the support Israel has from the goyem, and how they say that the Jewish people should not accept support from the goyem. Are you kidding me?!! All I can say is I’m glad those idiots don’t run the country. To them, I say, don’t be too flattered, we just don’t want to deal with the mess of another Holocaust. For the rest of the Jewry who have a brain, I say a little thank you to your friends goes a long way, and insulting your friends by calling them people who “would never understand” is hurtful and is what turns friends into enemies.
Now my question to you is this: Are you really an Arab who’s trying to make the Jews look bad? because you sound really selfish. How do you plan to be “light unto the Nations” when you’re second guessing everybody, even something as obvious as calling the Armenian Genocide by its name? You’re not the first country to call it that, you know. That’s what it’s already called in most history books. Catch up with the times already.